Excessive profanity in books

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Do you have this compulsion or sense of justification? I see nothing wrong with using "vulgar" language in front of children, but I don't feel compelled to use it, as it's a bit wasted on those who can't appreciate the nuances.

So the question is still "Does freedom of speech trump all other considerations?"

I'm not talking about the repression of speech. And I'm not talking about the right to scream FIRE in a crowded theater.

I'm talking about the lack of tact in going before a gathering of Jew and saying that the holocaust was a necessary thing. Or standing up at a "Parent and Teachers Association" and extolling the benefits of NAMBLA. Or saying how the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was just a misunderstanding, and that the Rape of Nanking was a well intentioned attempt at solving the population problem.



I guess that if you believe in nothing, that nothing has intrinsic value, then the subjects above really are meaningless to you.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by TGS

And as an adjunct to that, how far up our list of priorities should be the avoidance of causing offense to other people?

Depends on your own level of standards and how you wish to be judged by other people, particularly those higher up the list.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

So the question is still "Does freedom of speech trump all other considerations?"

I'm not talking about the repression of speech. And I'm not talking about the right to scream FIRE in a crowded theater.

I'm talking about the lack of tact in going before a gathering of Jew and saying that the holocaust was a necessary thing. Or standing up at a "Parent and Teachers Association" and extolling the benefits of NAMBLA. Or saying how the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was just a misunderstanding, and that the Rape of Nanking was a well intentioned attempt at solving the population problem.

<snip annoying picture>

I guess that if you believe in nothing, that nothing has intrinsic value, then the subjects above really are meaningless to you.

In the USA, yes public expression of all those things ought to be fine.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

So what?

So, your original point, to which my post was a response, was that the use of profanities was an indication of a lack of language skills. The use of profanities may well accompany a lack of language skills, but they certainly do not indicate it - those who lack language skills may use profanities but it doesn't follow from that that those who use profanities lack language skills.

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

If you prefer to lower yourself to the level of society that embraces those words, go for it. I prefer not to.

I am more than happy to be associated with that section of society that uses such language - though I don't know on what sort of scale I would have to measure in order to consider it to be a "lowering".

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

In the USA, yes public expression all of those things ought to be fine.

That would seem to make you nihilistic. Which begs the question "Why bother expressing your views?"

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

best comment of the thread...to those folks...F**K'em...there are more important things in life and the sooner these sanctimonious sorts get off their cross the sooner we can move forward as a society. But as of now we are sliding off into a police state and in no small part due to those your post describes.

That said, the best way these sorts can solve their problem is to not buy the material or return it after purchase rather than forcing their so-called values on everyone else.

My not appreciating profanity does not mean I approve of censorship; in truth, I vehemently oppose it. It does not mean I have to expose myself to it, either. The option you mention in the second paragraph is exactly what I choose. You are free to choose whatever you want. However, be aware there are people who will judge you for your blatent use of profanity here. If you don't care, it's your life.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

That would seem to make you nihilistic. Which begs the question "Why bother expressing your views?"

Because the Chinese government threatened to reeducate me if I didn't start being antagonistic.

[SameOldStory]

And your problem with that?

[JLeighs]

Cripes. This thread went sour fast.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by JLeighs

Cripes. This thread went sour fast.

Yep, it went straight to...uhh Heck.
Some of the heavyweight ranters should get it back on the rails quickly enough though.

[JLeighs]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Yep, it went straight to...uhh Heck.

Ha!

[SameOldStory]

Actually, I am on topic.

Nihilism - Philosophy
a. An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
b. A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated."

If one holds that "all values are baseless" then profanity, vulgarity, and offensive language of all sorts are perfectly OK to use in any place or situation.

As I keep asking "Does freedom of speech trump all other considerations?" It seems that there are those saying that it does. That the language you use is acceptable because you want to use it.

Obviously I have offended some. But isn't that my right? I don't think so. But only by offending you, will you perhaps understand that others may be offended too.

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

Actually, I am on topic.

Nihilism - Philosophy
a. An extreme form of skepticism that denies all existence.
b. A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated."

If one holds that "all values are baseless" then profanity, vulgarity, and offensive language of all sorts are perfectly OK to use in any place or situation.

As I keep asking "Does freedom of speech trump all other considerations?" It seems that there are those saying that it does. That the language you use is acceptable because you want to use it.

Obviously I have offended some. But isn't that my right? I don't think so. But only by offending you, will you perhaps understand that others may be offended too.

Incorrectly drawing the conclusion that someone is nihilistic because they do not wish to mandate tact in the public sphere is only laughable, and not offensive in the least. It's made even funnier by the apparent presumption that you're teaching someone on the internet something about being offended.

[mr ploppy]

I like my books grounded in reality. If the characters would swear if they were real then they should swear in the book too. To do otherwise would just be wrong.

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

So the question is still "Does freedom of speech trump all other considerations?"

I'm not talking about the repression of speech. And I'm not talking about the right to scream FIRE in a crowded theater.

I'm talking about the lack of tact in going before a gathering of Jew and saying that the holocaust was a necessary thing. Or standing up at a "Parent and Teachers Association" and extolling the benefits of NAMBLA. Or saying how the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was just a misunderstanding, and that the Rape of Nanking was a well intentioned attempt at solving the population problem.

As repugnant as I find all the cited positions, the US Constitution prohibits government from silencing unpopular speech. Otherwise, you get into certain opinions being criminalized ("hate speech" laws), creating "crimethink".

Far as I can tell, a free society will not stay that way if opinions can be punished by law. Inciting violence or harassment are legally actionable, and should be, since those acts infringe on the rights of others.

Would you rather have a "free speech for me, but not for thee" scenario in which only certain views are legal to express, and a shift in political climate could easily render your beliefs crimes?