Massive wave of ebook piracy?

[GA Russell]

I've been a member of MR for over a year, and I have consistently seen what I believe to be the same mistake regarding geographical restrictions.

Apparently Publisher X has the rights to the book for the US, and Publisher Y has the rights for Europe (or Australia).

Pub X makes the book available as an eBook, and the Europeans and Australians blame Pub X because they are not allowed to download the book.

It seems to me that the fault lies with Publisher Y, who has not gotten off its duff and made the book available to those areas it has the rights for.

The Europeans and Australians are blaming X when they should be blaming Y.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

[kennyc]

The one "additional" issue of difference between ebook and pbook geographical restrictions is that someone decided that the point of sell of an ebook is YOUR COMPUTER.

What this means is that you can purchase a pbook from anywhere and have it shipped to anywhere. Not true of ebooks because of that nasty little "point of sale" thing.

[xbatzy]

Personally I am a fan of a number of series of books and for them all to be priced between 8.99 and 14.99 +/- depending on where I look per book and this is e-book prices (paperbacks are more exp but only marginally.) I don't think it fair of the publishers to go hey sure you read the first book now heres book two and its 7.99 for the e-book and the paperback is the same price. e-books are convenient for me as I don't have a lot of house space otherwise they'd be stacked everywhere and money isn't always plentiful and I think this is a common occurrence right now so if there's 8 books in a series and I've got the first one that means I have 7 more to buy now if I have the first one in paper back and decide I want them all in ebook format I now have to pay 7.99 * 8 books. And yes I could buy them one at a time but I would rather have them all at once. My total purchase would be $63.92 not taking into account taxes at the point of sale. In theory I wouldn't mind this if they had sales on bundles of series say books 1 - 3 for $15 - $20 as a permanent buy. This is reasonable and sometimes they do but not always and not always for the author(s) I'm reading and if they do it's for a short time. I question weather or not the publishers are going to wise up. Either way I am happy with what I have but it would be nice to see them more reasonably priced renting is a fair option that I'm not opposed to either.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

In which case one may as well just go max out their credit-cards, buy some advertising and start doing legwork... lots of it. With POD and eBook distribution the way they are now there's little room for existing publishing corps.

Paul

Although there are sometimes cases where a collaboration works if it represents a welcome symbiosis...
If just read in the German magazine about two writers from Berlin, both of them writing a story situated in the scene "district" Berlin Mitte, both sort of "founding fathers" for the image of the district. One, Rafael Horzon, is then implicitly situated in German literary history as "having his book published by Suhrkamp, where Thomas Berhard, Theordor W. Adorno and Max Frisch have been published". You see what is happening here. Not only is credibility in terms of "cultural value" lended to Horzon via the tradition the publisher Suhrkamp represents, Suhrkamp grants him that because they see in his book the potential to give credibility back to them in turn (they have recently struggled to stay popular as a publisher of interesting contemporary fiction).
So the point is, I'm not sure if publishers institutionalized in collective memory as "of good value" can be so easily circumvented because even if they do not advertise directly, the significance THEY lend to authors is still of considerable importance on the "Literature" pages of newspapers and in magazines. (just as they need the significance new themes have to keep them up to date). I still see a stronger bond there between creator and vendor of content as for example in the music industry where labels like Motown have long ceased to shine beyond endless iterations of Greatest Hits albums because there was no new Diana Ross or Michael Jackson ready to a) be a new Diana Ross or Michael Jackson and b) to be made a new Diana Ross or Michael Jackson.

[crich70]

I think part of the reason why there are restrictions of various sorts on ebooks is that unlike pbooks they don't age. That is with pbooks the paper degrades over time, the bindings weaken and the pages can become stained not only with things like coffee spills but things like the reader's sweat. With ebooks you can buy a copy of a book today and still have it be pristine looking 20-30 yrs from now. And if you have a back up so that if one copy gets scrambled you can just reload a new copy of the text you don't have to spend $$ again to keep your library intact. So where you might have to buy a new pbook copy of a book like Dracula every decade or so (depending on how often you read it) you might not need to buy another copy of the ebook version in your lifetime. That means less profits for the publisher. Of course you could argue that new writers can take up the slack but the publishers probably only see that a sure thing title isn't being bought over and over again by the public. Why buy another copy of a book you already have and that looks brand new 20-30 yrs after you purchased it after all? They (the publishers) do need to wake up to the fact that the old style of publishing is gone now though I agree. And that includes price. A good part of the cost of a book is things like the warehouse storage, shipping costs, cost of paper and ink, etc. all of which are either non-existant or almost so with ebooks. Til they adapt to the changing world there will always be some piracy. Even after they do there will probably be some, but not as much I bet.

[thrawn_aj]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Those are both published by the writers, and not all writers seem to be confident enough to do that. Once you add on agents, editors, designers, publishers, etc, you add extra mouths to feed. Not all of them will add anything of value to the reader, but they will still all want their cut.

I believe Mal said it best :

‘Bout 50% of the human race is middlemen, and they don’t take kindly to being eliminated.


Kinda defines the reasons behind the music industry's (and now the publishing industry's) refusal to get with the times. Perfectly rational if you think about it.

[SensualPoet]

The other 48% are government. *sigh*

[speakingtohe]

@mrploppy

That's the sort of thing I've been thinking of, but probably at the end rather than the beginning. The only real danger would be that it would let people who didn't already know they could get them for free that they could have saved themselves a bit of money.

Perhaps change the wording to "if you have enjoyed this book by borrowing it"
Although I think the standard threatening note lets people know they can get the book illegally.

Also no reason not to put it at both the beginning and the end.
I borrow a lot of library ebooks and would definitely cough up a few dollars on occasion.
While the majority probably wouldn't those that did would retain a warm fuzzy feeling for the author(s) who gave them the opportunity to do so without censure.

Helen

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I've been a member of MR for over a year, and I have consistently seen what I believe to be the same mistake regarding geographical restrictions.

Apparently Publisher X has the rights to the book for the US, and Publisher Y has the rights for Europe (or Australia).

Pub X makes the book available as an eBook, and the Europeans and Australians blame Pub X because they are not allowed to download the book.

It seems to me that the fault lies with Publisher Y, who has not gotten off its duff and made the book available to those areas it has the rights for.

The Europeans and Australians are blaming X when they should be blaming Y.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

No, you are correct that Australian publishers are sluggard sheeplike mice.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

@mrploppy

Also no reason not to put it at both the beginning and the end.
Helen

The logic of putting it at the end is that if they see it they will have presumably liked your book enough to read it, so they would be in a better position to decide how much it was worth to them.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by crich70

I think part of the reason why there are restrictions of various sorts on ebooks is that unlike pbooks they don't age.

30 years ago punch-cards and paper punch ribbons were popular.
Imagine a nice 8 inch floppy disk here with a book saved in a format that was popular 30 years ago. I doubt it will even be ASCII text (it might be in EBCDIC, but I do not know what version ;-) ). How do I open it?
Imagine a well preserved 200MB backup tape. Where do I get tape drive that would read 20 years old tapes?

Recently I had to open an old backup for industrial automation system from a 100MB IOmega zip drive. The only reason I was able to open it is that I am a packrat and I anticipated such situation so I salvaged an old zip drive from a trash when my coworkers were moving to a new office. I also have Jazz drive and Superdisk drive. You do not want to know how my coworkers joked about my boxes of "old junk".

You have obviously never tried to open a file older than a few years. 15 years from now you won't be able to open .lit or .mobi file.
Also bear in mind that the majority of e-books ... aehm ... "sold" today, are in fact licensed to you for limited time and limited number of devices. When they switch off DRM server and your old device dies you won't be able to red ... aehm ... "your" books.

At work I sometimes have to work with old data and old computers (industrial automation). Believe me, 15 years from now not a single computer that is used today will be in use. A new fancy e-ink reader has a lifetime of perhaps 5 years. After that you won't be able to purchase batteries, spare parts or support for it. There will be better and not-quite-100%-backward-compatible devices with better parameters for fraction of price.
On the other hand I have collection of paper books from my grandfather.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I've been a member of MR for over a year, and I have consistently seen what I believe to be the same mistake regarding geographical restrictions.

Apparently Publisher X has the rights to the book for the US, and Publisher Y has the rights for Europe (or Australia).

Pub X makes the book available as an eBook, and the Europeans and Australians blame Pub X because they are not allowed to download the book.

It seems to me that the fault lies with Publisher Y, who has not gotten off its duff and made the book available to those areas it has the rights for.

The Europeans and Australians are blaming X when they should be blaming Y.

Am I right, or am I missing something?

It's the refusal to take leadership and recognize it's a problem that needs to be fixed. It's not if it's publisher x or publisher y or the agents or the authors or the existing contracts that are to be blamed. The circular finger pointing is just an excuse to do nothing.

It should have been fixed years ago for all new electronic book contracts.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by johnnyb

So the point is, I'm not sure if publishers institutionalized in collective memory as "of good value" can be so easily circumvented because even if they do not advertise directly, the significance THEY lend to authors is still of considerable importance on the "Literature" pages of newspapers and in magazines.

Yes, "legitimization" is a function of a traditional publisher...
...for now.
For now, self-publishing is seen by many consumers as synonymous with "vanity press". They figure that the story/essay/whatever "can't be that good if they couldn't find a publisher for it".
But that is a transient bias.
As more and more authors start self-publishing and more and more consumers buy self-published content, first by "name" writers, then by mid-listers, and eventually by newcomers, reality will start to sink in. Especially if the traditional publishers stick to their intended pricing schemes. Eventually the realization that the $20 BPH story is *not* inherently better than the $2.99 self-published book; just more expensive.

The biggest threat to the myth of publisher "legitimization" is Sturgeon's Law ("90% of everything is crap") so over time regular consumers will get used to the new sources of content. And, let's face it; "publisher legitimization" matters more with a $20 hardcover than with a 2.99 ebook--people *will* take the occasional flyer on an unknown quantity if the price is right. And eventually those unknown quantities will become quite known, all on their own. Think of it as self-legitimatization via track-record.

Now, the newspaper "literature" pages with their reviews are already fading in many countries in the face of online review sites and online bookstore customer reviews which are more immediate, more accessible, and free.

We're in a transition era; it is very helpful to dissect past consumer behavior and bias as long as we remember that just because people behaved that way in the past, just because they may behave that way now, is no guarantee they will still behave that way.
The future is not the past with a different date.
Understanding past behavior is very helpful in crafting strategies for the future insofar as we remember that changing conditions will sooner or later lead to changed behavior. Blindly tying one's business to past behavior simply leads to steadily declining relevance; if nothing else because new/younger customers will come with new attitudes. (The digital natives paradigm.) Generation gaps are real and the only safe place to be there, in the long term, is with the newcomers.

Publisher (and critic) legitimization is real. For now.
But it's not something to tie your fate to. There are better and more reliable ways to build an author's brand name; they may not be as fast but neither do they leave you subservient to a wheeler-dealer in a glass skyscraper.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Barcey

It should have been fixed years ago for all new electronic book contracts.

Exactly

Contracts and the conditions within them are set by the principal not the contractor.

The fault lies squarely at the feet of the publishers (principals). However the authors (contractors) need to start demanding changes and that is often difficult to do, when there is a "take it or leave it" approach laid down by publishing companies such as the agency 5 dodos.

I had hopes for the publishing industry as they had examples of the messiness of the changeover to the digital age experienced by those other dinosaurs, the music and entertainment industry. But the lesson was never learned.

Little wonder that piracy is a convenient scapegoat for them. They can always blame piracy, thus covering up the fact their own anachronistic distribution systems are one of the root causes.

Abolish DRM and geo restrictions, set prices that are fair and equitable (Baen model?) and sales will provide just as much profit to everyone. There will be always piracy, but a lot of those turning to piracy would come back to buying ebooks as they wanted to do in the first place, but were denied the choice.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Yes, "legitimization" is a function of a traditional publisher...
...for now.

Exactly to the point: The shoddy and decidedly unprofessional quality of most of the ebooks being released by Big Pubs threatens a backlash against them, which would drive consumers into the hands of indies, and the discovery that "Hey... this stuff ain't bad."

If Big Pub doesn't act on their quality issues soon enough, the only things that will drive customers back to them will be ultra-low prices, ridiculous bargains and the most blatant of bread-and-circus content imaginable... IOW, a complete and total surrender of their superior, intellectual, authoritative image.