About the backlist

[crossi]

I understand that included in standard contracts is a means to regain your rights if a work hasn't been republished in a certain time. I doubt any agent would agree to a contract saying the author loses their rights forever. Certainly some fiction has been republished a number of times by different publishers. This seems to indicate that it is fairly common for an author to regain his rights and be able to re-sell them.

here is a link to a sample ebook contract
http://www.epress-online.com/contract.htm

[elcreative]

And here's another way to be sneaky... if the book is in print then the publisher retains contractual rights but in print doesn't necessarily mean for sale... it is not unknown for a publisher to retain ten, twenty copies in stock but not to supply orders for it just to retain contractual rights by being able to prove the book is still in print...

Originally Posted by crossi

I understand that included in standard contracts is a means to regain your rights if a work hasn't been republished in a certain time. I doubt any agent would agree to a contract saying the author loses their rights forever. Certainly some fiction has been republished a number of times by different publishers. This seems to indicate that it is fairly common for an author to regain his rights and be able to re-sell them.

here is a link to a sample ebook contract
http://www.epress-online.com/contract.htm

[rogue_librarian]

Really? I don't think that would fly in a court of law. This does not fit my (or, indeed, the generally accepted) definition of being "in print".

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by crossi

If the publishers won't republish the backlist the author would have every right to take back their rights to it and publish it themselves. They spent months of time writing those books, they were on the shelves for a few months and then pulled to make room for the next month's book. All that work and no further income for it ever. All the people moaning over the poor authors and low priced ebooks don't seem to care about all the books languishing unpublished with NO further income for the author. At least with low cost ebooks the author gets SOMETHING. And if they take back the rights and publish themselves they get a lot even with low prices.

This is already happening. Roberta Gellis, Vonda McIntyre, and lots of others I'm seeing.

[elcreative]

So sorry, I bow to superior knowledge and experience... I've only had associations with design, publishing, printing and book retailing for around forty years... a book is in print if the publisher can go to the warehouse/stock store and pull a copy of the book off the shelf... there is no requirement in law that forces anyone to sell anything to anyone...

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Really? I don't think that would fly in a court of law. This does not fit my (or, indeed, the generally accepted) definition of being "in print".

[anamardoll]

To answer the OP, I definitely think readers are going to make it worth the time/money/effort to put out backlisted books. Yes, there will be a few people Kindle bombing over the price point, but publishers don't care about that.

Relatively recently, and to my utter delight, 3 older Wrede books were re-released, including this one:

http://inkmesh.com/ebooks/seven-towe...book/?qs=wrede

They put it in ebook form, made a pretty new cover for it, and listed it for $7.99. I was happy to pay it - my older copy was falling apart from use. I think I've seen one Kindle bomb on these three ebooks - the rest of the reviews have been from fans like me who have been praying and wishing and hoping that Wrede's works would be ported over to e-form.

There's definitely money to be made here. I feel like the OP was a little challenging: Are you going to make it worth the publisher's effort? If you're seriously asking, then my answer is: yes. I have and I will continue to.

[crossi]

That's outrageous. Any publisher that treated me like that would never get any futher business from me and I would ecourage all others of their authors to move to a different publisher also. Also I'd get another agent. Any contract that allowed that was very badly written. It might not be against the strict wording of the contract but it is surely against the authors intetrests and the spirit of the contract.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by elcreative

a book is in print if the publisher can go to the warehouse/stock store and pull a copy of the book off the shelf.

As I've said, that's not a common definition. "In print" means it's still being published and, therefore, available for purchase, at least in general and abstract terms.

Details will depend on the publishing contract, but as a rule books are deemed out of print if there are less than a certain number of units of the book available for sale to the public. While there is clearly no obligation to sell to a particular buyer, keeping a few copies without any intention to sell them won't automagically keep the book in print forever.

In legal terms you'd simply call that an attempt to evade contractual obligations.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

We know they have been selling e-books for 10+ years (along with P-books) and are currently still in business. Yes, they are a private company, not required to show their books to anybody but their bankers (if they have any debt), but that is no cause for implying that they aren't successful.

I implied no such thing. I just point out that though many of us like the way Baen does business, we don't have the information required to state how good a business they have going.

They also target a fairly small nice. Happens to be MY niche, so I'm quite pleased. But I can't say their tactics would work for a broader audience. Not saying they wouldn't, just saying we don't have the information at hand to make such judgments.

We don't know, for example, how well the authors that write for them are doing as opposed to other publishers. From an author's perspective -- what are the advantages of writing for Baen as opposed to Tor or Ace?

Lee

[anamardoll]

Yes, if that's the common definition of "in print" - We have a copy, no you can't buy it - then I'd expect all publishers to have an "in print" Vault where they keep a pristine "for sale, but not really, it'll cost you 1 bazillion dollars to buy" copy of everything they've ever published ever.

---

We don't know, for example, how well the authors that write for them are doing as opposed to other publishers. From an author's perspective -- what are the advantages of writing for Baen as opposed to Tor or Ace?

One presumes that the authors are pretty happy with them. I'm fairly certain that Mercedes Lackey could sign with anyone she wants at this point.

---

Just my two cents, and feel free to ignore me, but... It's a little off-putting that whenever anyone makes a point you don't like, you say "We don't know that!" in an attempt to shut down the conversation.

I don't see you meticulously documenting every assertion you make, so... it's a little off-putting for you to be shutting down other people for saying things like, "Well, Baen does X and they seem to be making a profit," and you leaping in crying, "We don't know that for sure!!"

Well, dude, we don't know a lot of things for sure, but the burden of proof seems to be a little uneven in your discussions. Just my two cents.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Hmm... So all the backlist are books that sold only a few copies... and any new book that
a publisher puts out is destined to sell millions of copies, right? There is no risk for even
a totally unknown new book? Weren't a number of the backlisted books quite successful,
in their day? Wouldn't there be some greater interest in the backlisted earlier works of an author who had a few very successful books later in their career? In fact, might there be less risk to bring back a good selling story from the backlist than to tryout a new author?

Luck;
Ken

If a book was still selling well, it would still be published and not part of a backlist.

And of course not all new books sell well. But they have a chance to. A backlist title has had it's run.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I feel like the OP was a little challenging: Are you going to make it worth the publisher's effort? If you're seriously asking, then my answer is: yes. I have and I will continue to.

Ta Da!

Lee

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by elcreative

And here's another way to be sneaky... if the book is in print then the publisher retains contractual rights but in print doesn't necessarily mean for sale... it is not unknown for a publisher to retain ten, twenty copies in stock but not to supply orders for it just to retain contractual rights by being able to prove the book is still in print...

For ebooks I can't see how they would ever go out of print except if the publisher voluntarily removed it from sale. If that meant they would no longer have any claim over their 80% markup I can't really see them doing that.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Really? I don't think that would fly in a court of law. This does not fit my (or, indeed, the generally accepted) definition of being "in print".

I can't either, but keeping it in print is how DC comics managed to swindle Alan Moore and David Lloyd out of their rights to that series even though they weren't the original publishers (except for the last third or so).

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by leebase

I implied no such thing. I just point out that though many of us like the way Baen does business, we don't have the information required to state how good a business they have going.

They also target a fairly small nice. Happens to be MY niche, so I'm quite pleased. But I can't say their tactics would work for a broader audience. Not saying they wouldn't, just saying we don't have the information at hand to make such judgments.

We don't know, for example, how well the authors that write for them are doing as opposed to other publishers. From an author's perspective -- what are the advantages of writing for Baen as opposed to Tor or Ace?

Lee

<shrug> Ask Eric Flint. He's been quite open about his sales and view on Baen and e-books. He was one of the original Baen author guinuea pigs at the beginning of the free e-book Baen Library.

He wrote about it in a series of essays called Salvos Against Big Brother In Baen's universe. Nor did he have a huge backlist when it started. But he had enough of one to do a comparison.