Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Writers' Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-07-2012, 06:43 AM   #31
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
I wonder how many programmers there are among us here. I have have been writing software since 1983...starting to wonder if there is over lap in the skill set for writing software and books.
I'm thinking it's desperation! A need to balance raw logic with chaotic creativity.

P.S. I've always thought the overlap is creativity. Many don't see/think of that in the software world, but it is very much true. And there are some similarities in writing software and writing in creating the piece-parts that fit together and support the overall objective of the story or program.

Last edited by kennyc; 07-07-2012 at 06:46 AM.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:07 AM   #32
gmw
cacoethes scribendi
gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gmw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
gmw's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,809
Karma: 137770742
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura One & H2Ov2, Sony PRS-650
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
[...]P.S. I've always thought the overlap is creativity. Many don't see/think of that in the software world, but it is very much true. And there are some similarities in writing software and writing in creating the piece-parts that fit together and support the overall objective of the story or program.
I tend to agree, though there are other factors too. One is simply the habit of writing (and I think this is a big one). Other factors include: the ability to sit and concentrate on one thing for long hours (which is a polite way of saying: being happy to sit on your butt for large parts of the day ); and a compulsion to keep gnawing at a problem until you find the solution.
gmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:08 AM   #33
tonymcfadden
Writer guy
tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tonymcfadden ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
tonymcfadden's Avatar
 
Posts: 38
Karma: 725824
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney, Australia
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
You've got me; but I definitely fall into the latter camp. I often think of the former camp is simply fooling themselves: Ascribing characters that the author created to telling the author's story, out of the author's control, sounds mildly schizophrenic. But yeah, whatever works.
In my experience (plotting number 7 now), the planning/plotting is absolutely necessary before I start writing. I attempted my first book without any planning in advance - well, very little. It took me three years to get it to a place where I was happy with it, and that was *after* I learned about story structure and reformatted it appropriately.

Now, with planning a "must do" I can write a well structured and (hopefully) engaging page-turning in anywhere from 6 to 9 months.

So, yeah, whatever works for you, but in my case (a middle-aged guy just starting, and trying t make up for lost time), the faster the better.
tonymcfadden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:11 AM   #34
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,418
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw View Post
I tend to agree, though there are other factors too. One is simply the habit of writing (and I think this is a big one). Other factors include: the ability to sit and concentrate on one thing for long hours (which is a polite way of saying: being happy to sit on your butt for large parts of the day ); and a compulsion to keep gnawing at a problem until you find the solution.
Wonder if there is a link because of how much READING you do as a developer.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:12 AM   #35
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
This is how I work.

Sure I create it all, but its different ways of getting there... So building on Billy Bob he uses his bat to adjust the attitude of the bar tender ... well of course the bar tender is a smart fellow and has a gun and his bar hop in the back sees the whole thing. She is the kind that would call the cops. And so on.
Sure, but even within that, you have a lot of control... for instance:

The bartender doesn't have a clear shot due to panicking patrons, spoiling his aim; he uses a shotgun, but forgot to reload a chamber after discharging it, so his first trigger-pull has no result; the barhop is knocked over by a running patron, and so doesn't see what happens; and Billy Bob has time to dive through the plate glass window before being perforated.

OR: Because of panicking patrons, Billy Bob and an innocent bystander get shot by the not-too-particular bartender; the bartender tells the bellhop to call for an ambulance, not the cops; then the bartender swears because everyone else has run off without paying their bills.

In both cases, the characters can act true-to-form, but circumstances around them still dictate their specific reactions. If you pick the right circumstances, it can help to bring out the aspects of the character that you want to highlight, such as a panicky bar forcing the otherwise-nasty bartender to hold his fire for fear of hitting an innocent patron... or showing his callousness by shooting through them.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 07:25 AM   #36
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,418
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Sure, but even within that, you have a lot of control... for instance:

The bartender doesn't have a clear shot due to panicking patrons, spoiling his aim; he uses a shotgun, but forgot to reload a chamber after discharging it, so his first trigger-pull has no result; the barhop is knocked over by a running patron, and so doesn't see what happens; and Billy Bob has time to dive through the plate glass window before being perforated.

OR: Because of panicking patrons, Billy Bob and an innocent bystander get shot by the not-too-particular bartender; the bartender tells the bellhop to call for an ambulance, not the cops; then the bartender swears because everyone else has run off without paying their bills.

In both cases, the characters can act true-to-form, but circumstances around them still dictate their specific reactions. If you pick the right circumstances, it can help to bring out the aspects of the character that you want to highlight, such as a panicky bar forcing the otherwise-nasty bartender to hold his fire for fear of hitting an innocent patron... or showing his callousness by shooting through them.
I see that as a function of setting the rest of the scene. Is it a upscale juice bar or a backwater biker bar? What about an upscale biker juice bar? A bunch of yuppies might run for cover while a bunch of ruffians might join the fight. What if it was cop appreciation night? Ladies night? Free beer night? Any of those would have dramatic impact on how it plays out. Once the scene is set, the story grows out of that.

So, not sure how anyone else works. But I start with some major general goal in mind, then put my characters in their places and the story starts to grow out of that. I write iteratively, which is that i write a few chapters, then I go back to the beginning of the book and rewrite. Then I write some new chapters and then I go back to the beginning and rewrite.

Would an outline save me work? No, not even close because I just do not think in outlines. I think in pictures. Just not wired for outlining. I am in grad school, so when I have to submit an out line, I write the paper first, then go back and create the outline.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:11 AM   #37
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,478
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
I write iteratively, which is that i write a few chapters, then I go back to the beginning of the book and rewrite. Then I write some new chapters and then I go back to the beginning and rewrite.

Would an outline save me work?
Well, with an outline I don't have to rewrite from the beginning every time I finish a chapter or two; so I'd have to say GODS, YES! it would save you work. But if planning in advance and writing linearly removes your creativity or impetus, by all means, do whatever turns you on.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:23 AM   #38
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,418
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Well, with an outline I don't have to rewrite from the beginning every time I finish a chapter or two; so I'd have to say GODS, YES! it would save you work. But if planning in advance and writing linearly removes your creativity or impetus, by all means, do whatever turns you on.
heh, you cut my quote

Quote:
Would an outline save me work? No, not even close because I just do not think in outlines. I think in pictures. Just not wired for outlining. I am in grad school, so when I have to submit an out line, I write the paper first, then go back and create the outline.
I forgot to mention that I use outlines for teaching and speaking. I even use, gasp... power point sometimes! They are useful in those cases to help make sure I cover all the facts/ideas I have intention to cover.

That process is also iterative...

Research - taking notes in outline format
Read over out line a few times to seat facts
Research - dif source materiel, and re work outline with new data
Read over outline a few times to seat facts
Repeat until done

Then I set aside the outline and write out a message as if I was speaking it. Using conversational language and tone fitting the audience. I iteratively right that paragraph by paragraph.

Then when it it time to speak, I bring my outline just in case I forget a fact, or quote but almost never look at it during my talk. By then I know what I want to say and I let the emotion of the audience help steer specifics. I do not always follow the outline in order, just depends how I feel things are going. Speaking live is more dynamic then writing. IMO

So would an outline save me work in a story? Nope, it is just not the way I think.

So in summary: The outline is useful for storing researched facts, not for making stuff up. At least not to me.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:41 AM   #39
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Gawd NO! Not POWERPOINT!!!!

(this makes me think of that over-hyped book by A Visit From the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan where chapter 12 is a Power Point presentation)
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #40
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,418
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Gawd NO! Not POWERPOINT!!!!
That is the exact response Power Point generates from my fell software developers at my day job.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:47 AM   #41
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
That is the exact response Power Point generates from my fell software developers at my day job.
We used to joke (though it wasn't really) about a co-worker that couldn't talk without a whiteboard and drawing shtuff all over it...
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:50 AM   #42
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,418
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
We used to joke (though it wasn't really) about a co-worker that couldn't talk without a whiteboard and drawing stuff all over it...
It really is two different worlds... I do not show power point when planing/working with my software developers at work.

However

I DO heavily use my whiteboard when teaching, and I DO use power point when doing public speaking.

Gotta be adaptable.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 10:16 AM   #43
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
Yes, but how much of it is FICTION!
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #44
Steven Lake
Sci-Fi Author
Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lake ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lake's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,157
Karma: 14743509
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Michigan
Device: PC (Calibre)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
I wonder how many programmers there are among us here. I have have been writing software since 1983...starting to wonder if there is over lap in the skill set for writing software and books.
I'm a developer. I started out in Basic in the late 80's, then went to C/C++, a little Fortran (not a fun language), and then migrated to Perl, and eventually PHP when the web came about. I find web programming to be a lot more fun than desktop development.
Steven Lake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 11:22 AM   #45
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 35,872
Karma: 118716293
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire
I started with basic as well, but earlier than you young whippersnappers. Early 70's on a minicomputer of some kind that had several teletype terminals attached. Lots of Intel Machine language early and most recently as a SW Architect on Java-based Cable/Satellite TV billing system..... All great training for Novel Writing!
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Dave Riggler's Stories" - 6 Short Stories bhartman36 Self-Promotions by Authors and Publishers 1 04-29-2011 09:55 AM
PRS-350 Is "screen burn" something to worry about? jsites Sony Reader 5 12-30-2010 11:13 AM
New Short Story Release: "4 Stories Down, 4 Stories Up" by Sara Elizabeth UntreedReads Self-Promotions by Authors and Publishers 0 07-07-2010 11:47 AM
Do e-ink devices "burn-in" gravescp Which one should I buy? 14 12-29-2008 10:35 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:38 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.