A New Year's reflection on the ePub e-book format - Page 2

Bob Russell · 01-04-2010, 11:01 AM

Just a quick supplementary note... I do understand that the DRM problem is not yet even close to being solved. Nor do I think that anyone really believes we have a satisfactory long run solution in the marketplace yet. Same is really true for formats now. It's not where it needs to be for an ideal customer experience.

But while we can argue about that untill the cows come home, what I really wanted to do here was take a positive look at one aspect of the progress being made in the e-book world that can easily go unnoticed or unappreciated.

Yes, we can look at the glass as half empty and focus on all the remaining challenges. And it's a topic that we will continue to discuss. But even if we must still step in the "cow patties" every so often, lets also take a moment here and there to smell the roses and appreciate all the bits and pieces that are moving the e-book world forward (as well as the people involved in those efforts).

nickbogaty · 01-04-2010, 04:05 PM

Bob,

Thank you for the generous post. I agree with yours and others comments that we do have a ways to go and many challenges to face from both industry and consumer perspectives. However, the momentum behind EPUB that we have seen over the past year to a year and a half is truly remarkable. Remember that the final EPUB specification was approved only about 2 years ago and there are literally hundreds of thousands of EPUB titles in the marketplace now for customers to choose from and enjoy.

I will also mention that there were a few essential people in the early technical working groups at the IDPF that deserve praise including: Garth Conboy, John Rivlin and Brady Duga at eBook Technologies Inc.; Ric Wright, Peter Sorotokin and Bill McCoy at Adobe; Markus Gylling and George Kerscher at the DAISY Consortium and Ben Trafford, an Invited Expert in the group. There were others involved, but these people specifically deserve mention and praise.

Thanks,
Nick Bogaty

kennyc · 01-04-2010, 04:16 PM

Thank you Nick for that follow up and to all those participants in the IDPF!

TallMomof2 · 01-04-2010, 05:19 PM

I only wish ePub were a standard format on the Kindle. I don't mind converting, that's what Calibre is for, but it would be great as a native format.

astra · 01-06-2010, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

I only wish ePub were a standard format on the Kindle. I don't mind converting, that's what Calibre is for, but it would be great as a native format.

You have kindle. Why do you need epub? Kindle is the best ebook shop. If there is epub ebook it will definitely be in kindle shop too.

kennyc · 01-06-2010, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

You have kindle. Why do you need epub? Kindle is the best ebook shop. If there is epub ebook it will definitely be in kindle shop too.

Not true.

And it won't handle Library epub checkouts.

Pardoz · 01-06-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

If there is epub ebook it will definitely be in kindle shop too.

This explains why I just bought a dozen ePubs from Waterstone's that weren't available on the Amazon store, were available on the Amazon store but they refused to sell them to me because of geographic restrictions, or were twice as expensive on the Amazon store.

I like the Kindle store, and it has the widest selection overall, but it's not perfect or complete by any means.

astra · 01-06-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

This explains why I just bought a dozen ePubs from Waterstone's that weren't available on the Amazon store, were available on the Amazon store but they refused to sell them to me because of geographic restrictions, or were twice as expensive on the Amazon store.

I like the Kindle store, and it has the widest selection overall, but it's not perfect or complete by any means.

Don't get me wrong. I dislike Kindle as an ebook reader

I could be wrong, but I believe that kindle store is the best ebook shop for USA citizens?

Pardoz · 01-06-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

I could be wrong, but I believe that kindle store is the best ebook shop for USA citizens?

Depends on your definition of 'best'. 'Widest selection', absolutely. Broadly competitive on prices. If one really had to choose a single store, Amazon would probably be the best bet, especially an Amazon account set to a US address. But if you stick with a single store only you will end up paying more for access to less content. Happily, between DRM-disinfection tools, format-conversion utilities, and desktop clients for the device-centric stores, we don't have to make that choice

adullday · 01-09-2010, 10:09 AM

What is considered best is subjective, but support for Adobe's ACS4 would offer access to numerous "lesser" ebookstores that collectively could be superior than the Kindle store by itself. (I'm not factoring the DRM disinfection and conversion tools since they are not used, and probably not known, by the majority of ebook readers).

If my reader supports epub with Adobe's DRM I can scout a number of ebook stores using my virtual feet (or the incredibly useful http://ebooks.addall.com) until I find the title I want. This recently happened to me with a John Varley book that is only available at Sony's ebookstore.

Just a note: I'm not Kindle bashing. That would be foolish considering the thousands of happy Kindle owners out there.

If I'm correct in my understanding that Kindle firmware updates can be pushed wirelessly, I wouldn't be surprised to see epub support on the Kindle in the not so distant future either with or without ACS4 support. If selling Kindles is more important that selling ebooks, Amazon could strike a competitive blow by supporting ACS4. For many ebookwise users the lack of support for Adobe's DRM monopoly is a reason not to by a Kindle.

I should've bought stock in Adobe.

TallMomof2 · 01-09-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

You have kindle. Why do you need epub? Kindle is the best ebook shop. If there is epub ebook it will definitely be in kindle shop too.

I purchase very little through the Amazon Kindle store. I've been a longtime customer of Fictionwise and with the rebates most of the time I can purchase the book there for less.

Support for ADE ePub would be nice as it would allow me to simply load my library ebooks directly onto the Kindle instead of having to liberate and convert. Plus, I've found that frequently the ePub version is better quality than the AZW of PDB versions.

I stick with the Kindle because I find that the hardware works the best for me and my personal preferences.

ATimson · 01-09-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Plus, I've found that frequently the ePub version is better quality than the AZW of PDB versions.

I suspect that's going to depend on the ePub's source. Simon & Schuster's recent conversion of their old titles to ePub format - which should be trivial for anything released as Microsoft Reader - has resulted in a bunch of ugly, poorly-put together files. It's pretty much put me off ePub on a format, and back to MS Reader (preferred) and Mobipocket/Kindle (if not available as .LIT).

GeoffC · 01-10-2010, 05:47 AM

An interesting article Bob....

but I am less than delighted by this avalanche towards ePub - until there is dictionary support I shall stay with mobi for as long as possible .....

cian · 01-10-2010, 06:38 AM

Its pretty trivial to create epub files using Calibre. Create an XHTML file, chuck in some class attributes for chapter and page breaks. Then create a CSS file for the formatting.

kennyc · 01-10-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

An interesting article Bob....

but I am less than delighted by this avalanche towards ePub - until there is dictionary support I shall stay with mobi for as long as possible .....

Dictionary support is not a function of the format as much as of the device.

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01-04-2010, 11:01 AM	#16
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Just a quick supplementary note... I do understand that the DRM problem is not yet even close to being solved. Nor do I think that anyone really believes we have a satisfactory long run solution in the marketplace yet. Same is really true for formats now. It's not where it needs to be for an ideal customer experience. But while we can argue about that untill the cows come home, what I really wanted to do here was take a positive look at one aspect of the progress being made in the e-book world that can easily go unnoticed or unappreciated. Yes, we can look at the glass as half empty and focus on all the remaining challenges. And it's a topic that we will continue to discuss. But even if we must still step in the "cow patties" every so often, lets also take a moment here and there to smell the roses and appreciate all the bits and pieces that are moving the e-book world forward (as well as the people involved in those efforts).

01-04-2010, 04:05 PM	#17
nickbogaty Member Posts: 11 Karma: 400 Join Date: Feb 2006	Bob, Thank you for the generous post. I agree with yours and others comments that we do have a ways to go and many challenges to face from both industry and consumer perspectives. However, the momentum behind EPUB that we have seen over the past year to a year and a half is truly remarkable. Remember that the final EPUB specification was approved only about 2 years ago and there are literally hundreds of thousands of EPUB titles in the marketplace now for customers to choose from and enjoy. I will also mention that there were a few essential people in the early technical working groups at the IDPF that deserve praise including: Garth Conboy, John Rivlin and Brady Duga at eBook Technologies Inc.; Ric Wright, Peter Sorotokin and Bill McCoy at Adobe; Markus Gylling and George Kerscher at the DAISY Consortium and Ben Trafford, an Invited Expert in the group. There were others involved, but these people specifically deserve mention and praise. Thanks, Nick Bogaty

01-04-2010, 04:16 PM	#18
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,872 Karma: 118716293 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Thank you Nick for that follow up and to all those participants in the IDPF!

01-04-2010, 05:19 PM	#19
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	I only wish ePub were a standard format on the Kindle. I don't mind converting, that's what Calibre is for, but it would be great as a native format.

01-09-2010, 10:09 AM	#25
adullday Enthusiast Posts: 35 Karma: 483720 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: none	What is considered best is subjective, but support for Adobe's ACS4 would offer access to numerous "lesser" ebookstores that collectively could be superior than the Kindle store by itself. (I'm not factoring the DRM disinfection and conversion tools since they are not used, and probably not known, by the majority of ebook readers). If my reader supports epub with Adobe's DRM I can scout a number of ebook stores using my virtual feet (or the incredibly useful http://ebooks.addall.com) until I find the title I want. This recently happened to me with a John Varley book that is only available at Sony's ebookstore. Just a note: I'm not Kindle bashing. That would be foolish considering the thousands of happy Kindle owners out there. If I'm correct in my understanding that Kindle firmware updates can be pushed wirelessly, I wouldn't be surprised to see epub support on the Kindle in the not so distant future either with or without ACS4 support. If selling Kindles is more important that selling ebooks, Amazon could strike a competitive blow by supporting ACS4. For many ebookwise users the lack of support for Adobe's DRM monopoly is a reason not to by a Kindle. I should've bought stock in Adobe.

01-10-2010, 05:47 AM	#28
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,600 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	An interesting article Bob.... but I am less than delighted by this avalanche towards ePub - until there is dictionary support I shall stay with mobi for as long as possible .....

01-10-2010, 06:38 AM	#29
cian Enthusiast Posts: 46 Karma: 602 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hove, UK Device: sony prs505	Its pretty trivial to create epub files using Calibre. Create an XHTML file, chuck in some class attributes for chapter and page breaks. Then create a CSS file for the formatting.