01-14-2013, 07:05 PM | #31 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
In earlier posts I have mentioned problems that my Kobo Touch reader is having with an ebook that works perfectly on my Sony T2. The html and CSS in this file validate to W3C standards, and the ePub validates with ePubCheck and FlightCrew.
I have tested all the fonts on the Kobo to see whether they show italics and whether the links work. The test file has some footnotes; link numbers in the text take one to a collection of footnotes in a different file, and this collection has a link back to the original text. The results are below: Kobo Touch Font Tests - Font size set to 10 Document Default This is set to sans-serif in the CSS of the test ebook, but shows as a serif font. Links: Work Endnote links: Work going. From Endnotes return to page before the footnote source. Italics: Work Amasis Links: Work Endnote links: Work going. From Endnotes return to page before the footnote source. Italics: Work Avenir Links: Go to two pages before target Endnote links: Work going. From Endnotes return to page before the footnote source. Italics: Show as bolded text, not italic Caecilia Links: Work Endnote links: Work going. From Endnotes return to page before the footnote source. Italics: Work Georgia Links: Go to one page before target Endnote links: Go to one page before target, return to two pages before target Italics: Work Gil Sans Links: Work Endnote links: Work going, return one page before target Italics: show as bolded text, not italic Kobo Nickel Links: Work Endnote links: Work going, return several pages before target Italics: show as bolded text, not italic Malabar Links: Go to one page before target Endnote links: Work going, return one page before target Italics: Work Gothic MB101 This is a sans font, and is noticeably bigger than the other fonts Links: Go to one page before target Endnote links: Work going, return one page before target Italics: Work, but font size noticeably smaller than normal font Ryumin Links: Go to target Endnote links: Work going, return one page before target Italics: Work, but font weight is heavier than normal font OpenDyslexic Links: Go to one page before target Endnote links: Work going, return one page before target Italics: Work Some of the italic/not italic problems are no doubt the fault of the way the that type face is designed, or implemented in the Kobo, but I am sure that the link and footnote problems are the fault of the Kobo designers. Let me repeat and emphasise that the links work perfectly well when the same ebook is read on my Sony. It will be interesting to see how Kobo customer service responds. That's my next stop. |
01-15-2013, 12:18 AM | #32 |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 24,908
Karma: 47303748
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos
|
That is an interesting set of results. The missing italics is a long term issue. I have no idea why Kobo haven't fixed it.
Two thoughts: - What were the margin settings on the device when you did this? There is a bug in the current firmware that if the margin settings are not the minimum, when a book is reopened, it goes to a page or two earlier than when it was closed. I could see this affecting link navigation as well, but I'm not sure. This should be consistent across the fonts, but, there may be something else going on. - For the page numbers, did you have the page numbers displayed in the margins? What I am wondering is if the navigation was going to the first screen for a page number. |
Advert | |
|
01-15-2013, 12:57 AM | #33 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Thanks again, David - more useful ideas to think about.
I initially set the margin as far to the left as it would go, then clicked the + icon twice, and left it there while testing each of the margins. For some of them I noticed that the margin had reset itself about a quarter over from the left, but didn't do anything about that. It didn't seem to make any difference with the links, but I didn't test it. In fact I remember now that in one of the testing sessions not only did the indicator on the line move over but the margins of the ebook became very wide. I just set the margin back to +2 and started over. The page numbers are not visible on the ebook right side margin as they are in ADE. There is a message at the bottom of the screen (taking up valuable reading space) saying PG 3 OF 13. Is this the page number you mean? Is there a way of turning this off? |
01-15-2013, 01:40 AM | #34 | ||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 24,908
Karma: 47303748
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos
|
Quote:
The margins are sort of interesting. Up until FW2.3.1, if they were set in the ePub, the Kobo devices did not override them. Which I thought was good. In FW2.3.1, the margins are additive. What you set on the device is added to whatever is in the book. Was your testing with only one book? A reason for the changes you saw is that the device stores the settings for each book if you make changes. It also save these settings as the defaults to use for any new books. Quote:
The bottom page number can't be turned off. If it could, it would be very popular, though I don't know if I would. |
||
01-16-2013, 01:22 AM | #35 | |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Quote:
I've had endless trouble with authors for whom I've developed mobi ebooks. Unless they do as I ask them and remove all traces of the previous version the new version won't overwrite the previous version. So they don't see the changes or correction I've made. If I understand you correctly I'm likely to have the same problem with Kobo owners. And yes, for consistency all the testing was on one ebook. |
|
Advert | |
|
01-16-2013, 01:46 AM | #36 | |||
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 24,908
Karma: 47303748
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos
|
Quote:
Quote:
For the Kobo owners, telling them to delete the book using the device should be enough. This will remove the book and details from the database. When they load it again, it uses their current default settings. If they are a calibre user, they can delete it from the device using calibre and send it again. If they just send it, then the device might delete it when it processes new books after disconnection. It checks the file size, and if this is different that what it has recorded, it removes the book. With that comment, something you might be interested in is the annotations. Any annotations made on the device to an ePub are stored in a file. These are under "Digital Editions\Annotations". Look for a file with the extension "annot" and the same directory and file names as the epub. You can copy these between the Kobo devices as long as all the names are kept the same. That way someone can make annotations while reading the book, and you can see them. You can also use it with ADE on the PC, but that is a little trickier. Quote:
|
|||
01-17-2013, 01:02 AM | #37 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Thanks again David.
In my opinion pedantic is when one doesn't agree with it. When one does agree with it the same behaviour is admirable precision. |
01-17-2013, 09:53 AM | #38 |
A Hairy Wizard
Posts: 3,071
Karma: 18727053
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charleston, SC today
Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire
|
It seems from your description (I don't have a kobo device) that one of the footnote links issues is that the link could be too small. A single "1" on a small screen (especially with small font) would be hard for the device to detect a touch.
Why not make the hyperlink a little larger - include more of the surrounding text. Unless there are two adjacent links that should not be a problem. e.g. instead of: <p>This is a test link[<a href="..." id="link1">1</a>]</p> you could use: <p>This is a test link<a href="..." id="link1">[1]</a></p> or even: <p>This is a test <a href="..." id="link1">link[1]</a></p> The only downside I could see is that link[1] would all be formatted as a link (ie. blue, underlined). I personally don't like links formatted like that - I remove all formatting and assume that the reader will intuit that it's a link based on it's content - but that's me. If you want just the numeral formatted that could easily be fixed with css and a span: a {color:inherit;text-decoration:none;} a span {color:blue; text-decoration:underline} <p>This is a test <a href="..." id="link1">link[<span>1</span>]</a></p> Cheers! Last edited by Turtle91; 01-17-2013 at 09:56 AM. |
01-18-2013, 01:11 AM | #39 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Thanks, Turtle91, but I don't agree with you.
As an habitual Sony reader I am accustomed to using a stylus when I need to, and I used a stylus on all the tests I did just so I could exclude that variant. Actually, I don't need to use a stylus on my Sony, but can always get the footnote links to work - they go to the endnote when I touch the link, and go back to the right place when I touch the link in the endnote file. For what it is worth here is the CSS I use - learned from one of weatherwax's ebooks. <span class="fn" id="F1"><a href="Endmatter.html#N1">[1]</a></span> <p id="N1"><a href="#F1">[1]</a> Endnote text goes here</p> a.footnote {font-size: small; vertical-align: text-top;} The numbers are of course changed for the individual endnotes. A few days ago I sent a slightly changed version of my post #31 to Kobo Customer Assistance, and tonight I got a reply to the effect that the post had been sent up to the tier 2 team. |
01-18-2013, 07:16 AM | #40 |
A Hairy Wizard
Posts: 3,071
Karma: 18727053
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charleston, SC today
Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire
|
A stylus - how novel! Lol
Well, now I'm intrigued. Please share their response when you get it. I did notice that your CSS references "a.footnote" but the class calls for "fn". Also it appears you have all the footnotes in a separate file (Endnotes.html). If you want the back link to work you need to put the filename in front of "#F1". I assumed you were just giving an example, but you might check that. I have a question of my own. When you create your link is there a specific reason for the span tags around the <a></a>? I usually try and absolutely minimize the number of tags and would have just put the class and id within the link: <a class="footnote" id="F1" href="...">...</a> Is using a span tag a specific requirement for Kobo/Sony?? Thanks! Last edited by Turtle91; 01-18-2013 at 07:29 AM. |
01-18-2013, 07:21 AM | #41 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,520
Karma: 121692313
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Heemskerk, NL
Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura
|
Not for Sony at least, I don't use spans for my anchors/links and they work.
|
01-19-2013, 12:16 AM | #42 |
Wizard
Posts: 3,413
Karma: 13369310
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Sony PRS T3, Kobo Glo, Kindle Touch, iPad, Samsung SB 2 tablet
|
Thanks to you both
@Turtle91 Looks like I need to clean out the CSS. The one I use now is .fn { font-size: 67%; vertical-align: text-top; } /* With thanks to Weatherwax */ The one I quoted earlier is old stuff. I have indeed put the filename in front of the #F1, just as I've changed the number as more endnotes were added. As I've mentioned in earlier posts the test file I used works perfectly well on my Sony. The questions I'm asking are about designing for the Kobo, not about html or ePub. About the span: here is a fragment from the html <p> ..... country quiet, of his mother,<span class="fn" id="F2"><a href="Endmatter.html#N2">[2]</a></span> of poetry – ....</p> I'm not sure how I could set both the features of the a and its id without a span. What do you do? Last edited by AlexBell; 01-19-2013 at 12:35 AM. |
01-20-2013, 12:48 AM | #43 | |
A Hairy Wizard
Posts: 3,071
Karma: 18727053
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charleston, SC today
Device: iPhone 11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire
|
I figured you were just making an example, but wanted to make sure.
As far as the link I have seen them done this way many times. That's how I do them. And I'm not aware of a reason to put a span around them - that's why I was asking. You never know what Feature will be added to these readers... I would just use: Quote:
|
|
01-20-2013, 09:10 AM | #44 | |
Connoisseur
Posts: 68
Karma: 5484
Join Date: Aug 2012
Device: Nook2, Kobo glo, Kobo mini, iPad3
|
Quote:
Code:
Main.html: <p> ..... country quiet, of his mother <a href = "Endmatter.html#ftn_2" id = "ftnref_2"><sup>[2]</sup></a> of poetry – ....</p> Endmatter.html: <p><a href = "Main.html#ftnref_2" id = "ftn_2">[2]</a>note text...</p> Last edited by oxen; 01-20-2013 at 09:17 AM. |
|
01-20-2013, 09:59 PM | #45 |
Curmudgeon
Posts: 629
Karma: 1623086
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch
|
I take back what I said about the margin bug being fixed.
It turns out that in iOS, even if you delete a book entirely from within Kobo, if you then re-add the same book without explicitly killing Kobo in the task switcher, you'll find yourself looking at the old copy of the book. This fooled me into thinking that the bug was fixed, when in fact I was actually looking at a newer copy where I had worked around the bug. So if you want compatibility with Kobo for iOS, do not under any circumstances set the left and right margins on the body tag to zero. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Designing a document for both print and epub | adieu | ePub | 6 | 10-19-2011 09:10 PM |
I've been "designing" some covers | mr ploppy | Writers' Corner | 4 | 07-18-2011 05:39 AM |
designing epubs for ipad? (my thoughts) | hapax legomenon | ePub | 18 | 02-17-2010 08:21 PM |
iPad IPad Design - if Apple was custom designing one for me | Bob Russell | Apple Devices | 131 | 02-15-2010 11:35 AM |
Designing an E-Book device for educational purposes | Cavelion | News | 13 | 05-29-2009 05:58 AM |