Epub to Kindle and page numbers

apropos · 12-08-2010, 01:16 PM

I am deciding between a Nook and a Kindle. Basically I like the Kindle device better, but I like Nook's e-books better (displays page numbers and uses the epub).
So what I'd like to know is, if I get a Kindle and convert epubs to Kindle's format on Calibre, will the Kindle display the page numbers in the epub file, or will it convert to using those damned "positions"?

wallcraft · 12-08-2010, 01:19 PM

Both the page numbers and the Kindle positions are made up numbers based on counting bytes in a file. So, no they won't get preserved between ePub and Kindle.

In the case of ePub, it is possible to have the page numbers explicitly defined in the document. But this isn't common at present.

apropos · 12-08-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Both the page numbers and the Kindle positions are made up numbers based on counting bytes in a file. So, no they won't get preserved between ePub and Kindle.

In the case of ePub, it is possible to have the page numbers explicitly defined in the document. But this isn't common at present.

I did comparisons on the Nook, and talked to the guys in the store, and for every book I checked, the page numbers on the Nook's epubs were identical to the page numbers in the corresponding book. I want that.
The only problem is when there are multiple versions of the book, there is no way of finding out which version the ebook is based on. But they seem to always correspond exactly to some physical copy of the book at least.

So what do these numbers translate to when converting to Kindle? Something arbitrary?

wallcraft · 12-08-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apropos

I did comparisons on the Nook, and talked to the guys in the store, and for every book I checked, the page numbers on the Nook's epubs were identical to the page numbers in the corresponding book.

This is always the case for PDFs, but B&N sells ePubs. What titles were you looking at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by apropos

So what do these numbers translate to when converting to Kindle? Something arbitrary?

They don't get translated at all.

HarryT · 12-08-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apropos

I did comparisons on the Nook, and talked to the guys in the store, and for every book I checked, the page numbers on the Nook's epubs were identical to the page numbers in the corresponding book. I want that.

No, in devices which use ADE to display ePub files (which includes the nook, Sony, etc), ADE page numbers are a count of 1024 characters in the compressed file. They certainly don't have any correspondence whatsoever with page numbers in any particular printed edition.

apropos · 12-08-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

This is always the case for PDFs, but B&N sells ePubs. What titles were you looking at?

They don't get translated at all.

I looked at the bestsellers they had downloaded already. Bush's Decision Points, that Patterson book. Then I looked at Infinite Jest (I thought it might be a weird book to read on an e-reader). All in all I looked at probably 5. The guy at the store said the page numbers always correspond. So on the Nook, you might be on "page 6" for a few 'screen pages' depending on how big the font size is.

So the Kindle won't display anything relating to your progress through the book?

apropos · 12-08-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, in devices which use ADE to display ePub files (which includes the nook, Sony, etc), ADE page numbers are a count of 1024 characters in the compressed file. They certainly don't have any correspondence whatsoever with page numbers in any particular printed edition.

Damn, so maybe I just got lucky when I looked through them. I'll have to go back and look in more detail. Thanks. If this is right, it changes everything.

wallcraft · 12-08-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apropos

Damn, so maybe I just got lucky when I looked through them.

As Harry says, Adobe uses a complicated algorithm that is approximately 1024 characters in the compressed file. So the actual number of bytes in a "page" varies but it is often more than one screen full of text. Also, a new chapter always starts a new page.

On the Kindle a location unit is 128 bytes, so divide by 10 or 20 to get something like an Adobe page.

apropos · 12-08-2010, 02:20 PM

Thanks for the replies. This helps. I would have been really annoyed if I got the Nook and found out later the page numbers didnt correspond.

So if I get a Kindle, will there be a way to take DRMed Epub files downloaded from Google's new ebook store and get them on the Kindle? I imagine I'd have to strip the DRM. Is there a utility for that?

slm · 12-08-2010, 02:26 PM

Apropos already said this but the point should be made again:
An epub can contain information that explicitly defines page numbers and overrides the default algorithm. Its purpose is exactly to allow the ebook version to match "pagination" with a particular print version. Some publishers may implement this.

The format used on the Kindle does not have this capacity, so the page map in an epub will not be reflected in an azw or mobi file.

wallcraft · 12-08-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apropos

So if I get a Kindle, will there be a way to take DRMed Epub files downloaded from Google's new ebook store and get them on the Kindle? I imagine I'd have to strip the DRM. Is there a utility for that?

The latest long thread on this is: Is it easy to remove DRM protection? The short answer is see Apprentice Alf's Blog for tools_v2.3 which contains Calibre plug-ins.

apropos · 12-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Just for anyone who might search for this later and won't know if the page numbers in the Nook correspond to the physical book:

They don't.

I went back to B&N, and looked again. The numbers might correspond on some books at the very beginning, but as you go along, the differences, of course, get much greater.
When I went the first time, I only did it very quickly because the rep there was seemingly very certain that they always correspond exactly.

12-08-2010, 01:16 PM	#1
apropos Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 24 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: none	Epub to Kindle and page numbers I am deciding between a Nook and a Kindle. Basically I like the Kindle device better, but I like Nook's e-books better (displays page numbers and uses the epub). So what I'd like to know is, if I get a Kindle and convert epubs to Kindle's format on Calibre, will the Kindle display the page numbers in the epub file, or will it convert to using those damned "positions"?

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12-08-2010, 01:19 PM	#2
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	Both the page numbers and the Kindle positions are made up numbers based on counting bytes in a file. So, no they won't get preserved between ePub and Kindle. In the case of ePub, it is possible to have the page numbers explicitly defined in the document. But this isn't common at present.

12-08-2010, 02:20 PM	#9
apropos Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 24 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: none	Thanks for the replies. This helps. I would have been really annoyed if I got the Nook and found out later the page numbers didnt correspond. So if I get a Kindle, will there be a way to take DRMed Epub files downloaded from Google's new ebook store and get them on the Kindle? I imagine I'd have to strip the DRM. Is there a utility for that?

12-08-2010, 02:26 PM	#10
slm Fool Posts: 377 Karma: 3557934 Join Date: Feb 2003 Device: Kindle Voyage, Kindle PW1, Kobo Glo HD, Nook Glowlight Plus ...	Apropos already said this but the point should be made again: An epub can contain information that explicitly defines page numbers and overrides the default algorithm. Its purpose is exactly to allow the ebook version to match "pagination" with a particular print version. Some publishers may implement this. The format used on the Kindle does not have this capacity, so the page map in an epub will not be reflected in an azw or mobi file.

12-09-2010, 01:42 PM	#12
apropos Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 24 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: none	Just for anyone who might search for this later and won't know if the page numbers in the Nook correspond to the physical book: They don't. I went back to B&N, and looked again. The numbers might correspond on some books at the very beginning, but as you go along, the differences, of course, get much greater. When I went the first time, I only did it very quickly because the rep there was seemingly very certain that they always correspond exactly.

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