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Old 08-01-2008, 11:49 AM   #1
marvmax
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Another DRM thread -- Baen gets it right

I'm new to the site, and I've done a search on this topic and found some old threads talking about it but just thought I'd start another.

First of all I just would like to say that I really love this site. I've been lurking around ever since I found out about it two weeks ago from the Baen Bar. (Personally I think that Baen has done everything right, except the Bar. I find it hard to use, and slow. Slow is the killer)

I didn't realize there were so many commercial readers out there. I personally use a Dell x51v. I pretty much use it primarily as a reading device anymore. However, I really like the flexibility it provides. For example I use it to read and study the scriptures with two different scripture reading software, and I make notes with Mobile Word, which allows me to move those notes to my PC.

Then I read my books on it. I'd been using Microsoft Reader but switched to Mobireader because of this site.

Anyway back when I got my first PDA I was looking for reading content, and I checked out the latest Honor Harrington book from the library. What was in the back of that book? Everyone probably knows, one of the Baen Free Library CDs. Nirvana. Or Literary Crack. I agree completely with Eric Flints views on copyright and DRM. Since that first taste of e-books I've spent $1020 on webscription books (I know this now because I just came from another thread where they were discussing how much they have spent because they saw it on webscriptions. I've wondered how much I've spent, but didn't know that I could actually find out. Now I almost wish I didn't know. This doesn't include all the other money I've spent on reading e formatted material.) There is no way I would have spent this much on pBooks in the same time period. The main reason for this is that I don't have the physical space in my house to store very many more books. Well I think there is plenty of room to store more books, but my wife apparently thinks that we need to live in our house also, and she has way different living standards than I do (thank goodness). My wife is also a bookaholic and make heavy use of the public library. She hates reading books on the PDA.

I know that I'm just rambling. I just wanted to get it out in the public that there are people like me who are willing to pay for, what I consider a reasonably priced e-book, and who will not put up with this ridiculous DRM crap. I have never gotten a book off of the blacknet and never will. I respect authors and am willing to pay for their work. I personally think that e-publishing is a way for authors to get more money not less. From this site I've been led to a few sites where it looks like the authors are self publishing where it would seem like they would make even more money per book.

While I don't mind paying what I consider a reasonable price, I hate feeling like I'm getting shafted. What do I consider getting shafted? Paying for printing costs, and distribution costs when those cost couldn't possibly be included in an e-book that I'm downloading. I would even consider paying a little more for new release of an e-book just for the pleasure of reading it right away. I would (and still might) except that Baen has shown me that it is possible for me to get an eBook earlier than a pBook, and still pay less for it (I don't buy the eARCs though) and Baen apparently makes money doing it. Well they got $1000+ from me, and the way to bet is that they're going to get $1000 more from me. Right now I pretty much buy most things Baen offers, and if I have any time, money or inclination left over I look at other options.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:35 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by marvmax View Post
First of all I just would like to say that I really love this site. I've been lurking around ever since I found out about it two weeks ago from the Baen Bar. (Personally I think that Baen has done everything right, except the Bar. I find it hard to use, and slow. Slow is the killer)
Welcome to MobileRead!

I can deal with the Bar, but I find it easier to deal with getting it as an NNTP feed in Thunderbird. Since there still seem to be occasional issues with posts not making it out through NNTP, I check the web version occasionally. Mostly, NNTP works.

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I didn't realize there were so many commercial readers out there. I personally use a Dell x51v. I pretty much use it primarily as a reading device anymore. However, I really like the flexibility it provides. For example I use it to read and study the scriptures with two different scripture reading software, and I make notes with Mobile Word, which allows me to move those notes to my PC.

Then I read my books on it. I'd been using Microsoft Reader but switched to Mobireader because of this site.
You aren't alone. I use a Palm OS based PDA for similar purposes, though I prefer to grab the HTML versions from the Free Library, and convert for the Plucker offline HTML viewer for Palm OS. (Incidentally, there's a PocketPC viewer for Plucker files called Vade Mecum, here.)

Quote:
Anyway back when I got my first PDA I was looking for reading content, and I checked out the latest Honor Harrington book from the library. What was in the back of that book? Everyone probably knows, one of the Baen Free Library CDs. Nirvana. Or Literary Crack. I agree completely with Eric Flints views on copyright and DRM. Since that first taste of e-books I've spent $1020 on webscription books (I know this now because I just came from another thread where they were discussing how much they have spent because they saw it on webscriptions.
The last I knew, Baen stated that Webscriptions made more money than sales to Canada. I have the complete run of Baen CDs, and tehre are Free Library titles on those that aren't on the web site.

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I personally think that e-publishing is a way for authors to get more money not less. From this site I've been led to a few sites where it looks like the authors are self publishing where it would seem like they would make even more money per book.
They can. The question is the number of copies they sell.

The biggest problem for any author is simply letting folks who might be interested know their books exist. Unless you are a name author with best sellers, the publisher won't be much help: they reserve promotional dollars for established authors with followings, to let the followings know new books by their favorites are out.

This is precisely the function the Free Library serves: it promotes authors. People read one of more books by an author in the Library, devcide they like what the author does, and buy new new one in hardcover (or through Webscriptions).

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While I don't mind paying what I consider a reasonable price, I hate feeling like I'm getting shafted. What do I consider getting shafted? Paying for printing costs, and distribution costs when those cost couldn't possibly be included in an e-book that I'm downloading. I would even consider paying a little more for new release of an e-book just for the pleasure of reading it right away.
Publishers charge what they believe the market will bear. I concur that pricing an ebook at the same level as a hardcover is absurd. Some specialized titles I would expect to cost more in any case, since they are aimed at niche markets.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:48 PM   #3
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I'm currently working my way through a number of GutenBerg and Baen Free Library books.

Once those are done though, I'm tempted to get some of the webscriptions, especially since they offer the full back catalogue and not just the most recent months. The price is great and it's a good way to get to sample a selection of new authors
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
The last I knew, Baen stated that Webscriptions made more money than sales to Canada. I have the complete run of Baen CDs, and tehre are Free Library titles on those that aren't on the web site.
I believe Eric Flint says that in his series of Universe articles. I'm taking his word because Baen seems to be increasing their ePublishing activities. Beside Webscriptions, they now have the Grantville Gazette, and the Universe. I find the Grantvillle Gazette an interesting phenomenon. It seems to have arisen by popular acclaim.

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They can. The question is the number of copies they sell.

The biggest problem for any author is simply letting folks who might be interested know their books exist. Unless you are a name author with best sellers, the publisher won't be much help: they reserve promotional dollars for established authors with followings, to let the followings know new books by their favorites are out.
Yeah it is. I would think that all publishers should look at Webscriptions and the Free Library as the way to do things.

As I said I found Baen and their e-books because of a free CD that I got from the Library. I hadn't heard of any of the writers, really. Actually I had read some of the March Upcountry Series by John Ringo, but didn't know it was John Ringo, as in I now look forward to anything Ringo writes.

That's true of the Webscriptions in general. I read many writers that I would never read others wise, and (here's the kicker for other publishers) I pay for writers now that I wouldn't otherwise. I don't know how Baen distributes the money they get from Webscriptions but I just pluck down my money every month. I almost always have read 3 or 4 of the titles but there are enough new ones that I go ahead and pay for them and read them. I've even read books about vampires, and I can guarantee that those authors would never get any of my money any other way.
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Old 08-03-2008, 03:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvmax View Post
I believe Eric Flint says that in his series of Universe articles. I'm taking his word because Baen seems to be increasing their ePublishing activities. Beside Webscriptions, they now have the Grantville Gazette, and the Universe. I find the Grantvillle Gazette an interesting phenomenon. It seems to have arisen by popular acclaim.
Eric should know, and has no reason to lie about it. Also, Arnold Bailey runs the Webscriptions program for Baen, apparently gets a cut of the take for his services, and is reportedly doing very nicely thank you on it.

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Yeah it is. I would think that all publishers should look at Webscriptions and the Free Library as the way to do things.
Oh, it's certainly been noticed. Tor Books had a deal at one point to offer Tor content through Webscriptions. It got derailed by reservations on the part of Tor's parent company revolving around lack of DRM, but is reportedly in discussion again.

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As I said I found Baen and their e-books because of a free CD that I got from the Library. I hadn't heard of any of the writers, really. Actually I had read some of the March Upcountry Series by John Ringo, but didn't know it was John Ringo, as in I now look forward to anything Ringo writes.
I was a tad surprised the CD was still in your library copy.

The March series is John Ringo and David Weber. That's another innovation on Baen's part: teaming popular authors with newer ones to collaborate on series. Weber and Ringo (and Ringo has subsequently become a Name himself,) Weber and Linda Evans in the Hell's Gate series, Eric Flint and K. D. Wentworth in the Course of Empire books...

The practice has been around for a while, witness the number of collaborations Andre Norton did with younger writers in her later years, and the sort of collaborative output Mercedes Lackey and Anne McCaffrey are doing. It spreads the Name's time over more books, and gives a leg up to newer authors who can hone their skills and establish their own names through the association.

Baen seems to be institutionalizing the practice in their line. How well it works depends upon the authors involved and how the collaboration is set up. Things can be delayed if one party is ready to go, but stuck waiting for manuscript from the other, and the authors need relatively complimentary styles and outlooks. The "chemistry" has to be there.

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That's true of the Webscriptions in general. I read many writers that I would never read others wise, and (here's the kicker for other publishers) I pay for writers now that I wouldn't otherwise. I don't know how Baen distributes the money they get from Webscriptions but I just pluck down my money every month. I almost always have read 3 or 4 of the titles but there are enough new ones that I go ahead and pay for them and read them. I've even read books about vampires, and I can guarantee that those authors would never get any of my money any other way.


Yeah, things like the Free Library make trying a new author a relatively risk free enterprise for the reader. Your investment is your time, and if you get partway through a book and don't like it, it's easier to drop it and try another. You don't have the fact that you paid for it as an incentive to push grimly on.
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