The culture of entitlement and illegal downloads

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Yes, as a person with a disability, I definitely sit around waiting for everything in life to cater to me. LOL.

You asked why a consumer wouldn't be willing to wait. I told you why that's not fair for a huge segment to the populace. If your position is that disabled people should just suck it, then YOU are the one with the entitlement complex, not I.

Since when has life been fair... people do the best they can... considering that the vast majority of paper books were never produced in braille/audio formats (and never will be) and films/TV similarly for subtitling, what's different about ebook reading (which can actually offer text to speech in some cases)...

Some things will be converted, for those of alternate abilities, at a much faster rate than others, some will never be converted if a need is not perceived or is insufficient... and in some cases there is no way a need can be fulfilled... blind watching "Wicked," listening yes but not watching and if you can't get it in a form you require then lobby the producers of the book etc, enough people do so and then you may get a result... I doubt that being "entitled" is going to get everyone to stop work on new material to retro-convert every printed item in the world and, in fact, things have never been better according to sight-impaired friends as text to speech tools work far better from ebooks than printed page scanning and conversion without having to rely on volunteers to read books onto tape for instance...

The same applies to other media and just because you (and others) think Wicked, is a life-changing experience that is vital to the well-being of members of the human race, doesn't give you a right to it at any particular time... especially as other people think that it is a meretricious piece of rubbish that offers nothing new to the human condition... works both ways...

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Well, for one, it's impossible to legitimately own a visual performance of Wicked in ANY format. The bootleg recordings are the only versions. Hence the relevance to the discussion. This isn't about format-shifting.

And, yes, I do consider the denial of that service to be a significant impact on people's lives. It's a beautiful and moving piece of work that has had tremendous impact on many people. We cannot simultaneously claim on this board that art is so meaningful that authors MUST be cultivated (and to do otherwise would detriment society) and so meaningless that when an edition is denied to the disabled then they have lost nothing.

Art is either valuable or valueless. We cannot simultaneously hold that it is both.

Deductively you aren't making sense, as you are treating "art" as a monolithic sort of term. You're free to find other pieces of "beautiful and moving" work to consume in ways that are available to you in order to fill that void. Your statements incorrectly use Wicked as an entity embodying that beauty and power single-handedly.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Since when has life been fair... people do the best they can... considering that the vast majority of paper books were never produced in braille/audio formats (and never will be) and films/TV similarly for subtitling, what's different about ebook reading (which can actually offer text to speech in some cases)...

Some things will be converted, for those of alternate abilities, at a much faster rate than others, some will never be converted if a need is not perceived or is insufficient... and in some cases there is no way a need can be fulfilled... blind watching "Wicked," listening yes but not watching and if you can't get it in a form you require then lobby the producers of the book etc, enough people do so and then you may get a result... I doubt that being "entitled" is going to get everyone to stop work on new material to retro-convert every printed item in the world and, in fact, things have never been better according to sight-impaired friends as text to speech tools work far better from ebooks than printed page scanning and conversion without having to rely on volunteers to read books onto tape for instance...

I know a couple that's hearing impaired, one of them complains constantly about the lack of a few titles that don't have closed captioning, the wife always tells him to shutup because they have more stuff than they ever did in the '80s or '90s by a huge margin. It's a valid point that plays directly into the topic of entitlement/"I want everything and I want it now".

[Kali Yuga]

Y'know, I don't entirely agree with the author's theory. The "entitlement" meme has been blamed for every social ill over the last 5 years, but doesn't explain why people in China -- who I doubt have the same sense of entitlement as upper-middle-class American kids with whom the US media is obsessed -- have little respect for IP laws.

The bottom line is: People like free stuff.

There isn't much you can actually do to stop it. You can offer better services, a safe shopping environment, extra material, better quality, lower prices. You can let the buyers choose their own price, including free, and they will still pirate it.

Some don't think they're doing anything wrong. Some don't care whether or not their actions are right or wrong. Some rationalize their behavior.

Some anti-piracy protections might work, though it largely relies on police enforcement, which is not always available. Nor do we necessarily want to live in a world that is so heavily policed.

Unfortunately for the author, I don't believe berating the general public, or an engaged following, will help either. The readers who are already buying aren't going to buy extras; the readers who happen to pirate will take it personally.

[spindlegirl]

I for one, as a library user, have grown accustomed to the "stick my name on the hold list and wait" line of reasoning.

I feel giddy and like I've been handed stuff on a silver platter, to just be able to do that.

I googled "Wicked", and came across a movie where a 14 year old girl wants to have sex with her father... is this the movie that is referenced above? I have never heard of Wicked as I don't have tv and don't go to movies much.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Harmon

That's certainly logical, but it doesn't seem to be the way people think about ebooks.

This is key: Sometimes, people's thoughts and expectations have to change... whether they like it or not. We changed our thoughts and expectations when we switched from bikes and carriages to cars. We changed our thoughts and expectations when we switched from broadcast to cable TV. In all of those examples, we swapped advantages and disadvantages in the transition.

Originally Posted by Harmon

It is the business of people who are selling things to understand what makes people buy the things they are selling. Trying to fence out people's alternatives, rather than making what you sell desireable to the consumer, does not seem to me to be a viable business strategy in the long run.

Actually, quite a few businesses manage to do exactly that, mainly by offering something the customer does want, and thereby forcing them to accept things they may not want (you might be surprised how well that particular business strategy works).

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I googled "Wicked", and came across a movie where a 14 year old girl wants to have sex with her father... is this the movie that is referenced above? I have never heard of Wicked as I don't have tv and don't go to movies much.

Wicked was a recent book and play about the witches from The Wizard of Oz. (Sort of makes you wonder what the big deal is, eh?)

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Sure, why not? The disabled people can just sit at the back of the bus like good, quiet little children while those privileged with able bodies can continue to get everything whenever they want.

Everybody waits. I'm still waiting for a lot of things. I'm still inconvenienced by a lot of things. I'm still shut out of a lot of things. Life isn't perfect for most of us, including those of us without physical disabilities.

It's unfortunate that some things take longer than others (or never) to come available. Some organizations don't have the personnel or expertise to release multiple formats of a piece of media at the same time; some formats they decide not to bother with because of cost; sometimes it's just laziness.

That isn't something to take personally. That, unfortunately, is business, and businesses aren't targeting YOU when they make a decision. Assuming a personal slight against you is usually counter-productive in dealing with the situation.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by sbroome

Is waiting too much to ask for? Sounds like very little to demand of consumers.

Demanding things of consumers is precisely the problem. The only thing a seller should demand of a consumer is payment. Any additional demand reduces sales.

In the digital world, things happen immediately. That is the normal condition. It is a mistake to say that expecting things to happen immediately is somehow the result of the user's sense of entitlement.

What I'm saying is that if it's raining outside, it's wet. It's not wet because I've decided to go outside.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Everybody waits. I'm still waiting for a lot of things. I'm still inconvenienced by a lot of things. I'm still shut out of a lot of things. Life isn't perfect for most of us, including those of us without physical disabilities.

It's unfortunate that some things take longer than others (or never) to come available. Some organizations don't have the personnel or expertise to release multiple formats of a piece of media at the same time; some formats they decide not to bother with because of cost; sometimes it's just laziness.

But if someone outside the organization originally responsible for the text has the capability to release the text in the format that the requester of the text wishes, should this person be allowed to release the modified text and also should they be cut into the revenue stream generated by the sales of the modified text?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Demanding things of consumers is precisely the problem. The only thing a seller should demand of a consumer is payment. Any additional demand reduces sales.

There is such a thing as too demanding a consumer. When that happens, business often say, "Screw it. I'm finding new customers, or I'm selling something else."

This puts consumers in a hard position: Continue to be uber-demanding, and watch the product you want to up in smoke. If the business disappears one night, the consumer has to take some blame for being too much of a pain in the @$$ for the business to bother with. But whether they assume some blame or not, essentially both sides lose.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I for one, as a library user, have grown accustomed to the "stick my name on the hold list and wait" line of reasoning.

I feel giddy and like I've been handed stuff on a silver platter, to just be able to do that.

I googled "Wicked", and came across a movie where a 14 year old girl wants to have sex with her father... is this the movie that is referenced above? I have never heard of Wicked as I don't have tv and don't go to movies much.

Wicked is a musical rendition of Gregory MacGuire's literary re-interpretation of the "Wizard of Oz" movie/story.

http://www.wickedthemusical.com/

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Demanding things of consumers is precisely the problem. The only thing a seller should demand of a consumer is payment. Any additional demand reduces sales.

In the digital world, things happen immediately. That is the normal condition. It is a mistake to say that expecting things to happen immediately is somehow the result of the user's sense of entitlement.

What I'm saying is that if it's raining outside, it's wet. It's not wet because I've decided to go outside.

Entitlement is in pretending that only the digital world matters because there are people who prefer spending time there. If it's raining outside you can deal with the inconvenience and go outside OR you can stay inside and WAIT for it to stop raining. Going outside and complaining that it's raining and demanding that the rain stop right away because you're inconvenienced is precisely where entitlement comes in.

If a movie is in theaters it will be available digitally soon. Until then you're free to pay a premium by seeing it now. Ideal? Maybe not, but in the grand scheme of things not much of an inconvenience at all. Go watch the tons of stuff you can see right away on Netflix.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

[*]This whole one copy one reader mentality. .

can you give your neighbor your paper book and still have a copy to read at the same time? why should someone be allowed to purchase one copy but then share copies with their family /freinds / etc etc all at the same time?

Originally Posted by BWinmill

[*]DRM claims to be about copy protection, yet it is also used to control how people access content. This ranges from region locks to vendor lock-in.

I hear you on vendor lock in. But regional lock in is not because they dont want FRANCE to have the book. Its because a publisher hasnt the rights to publish the book in France yet or perhaps the publisher has just got the hard cover out and they want to wait for awhile before releasing the ebook version to help sales of the hardcover.

SO WHAT. its not available to YOU yet in the format or at the price you desire , read something else

Originally Posted by BWinmill

[*]Slow response to changing market demands. Ever notice how pirates adapt to technology better than businesses do? Illegal downloads seem to predate legal downloads in virtually every market..

Because the illegal folk dont have to worry about negotiating contracts and setting up distribution and payment channels( to the authors etc) and making sure tax documents for the various regions are properly filed etc etc etc

The reason the "pirates" are quicker is because they arent following the rules

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by sbroome

You're not owed entertainment. And if you're waiting for everything in life to cater to you you'll find it very disappointing.

I think what you are missing here is that by giving creators the protection of copyright, we, as a society, are making a deal. And part of that deal is that what the creators create will be available to everyone.

So when the creators produce something in a fashion that excludes people on a basis other than pricing, we are entitled to take a good hard look at that.

Maybe "piracy" is a good response to the decision of a creator or provider not to service the whole market. It allows the creators to focus on the areas where they think they'll get a maximum return, and it allows the people they aren't servicing to have access to the product.

It might be a good idea to eliminate the "right not to publish" from copyright protection. So copyright would protect the creator in any segment of the market he decides to enter, but not in any segment he decides not to enter until he decides to enter it after all.

[sbroome]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I think what you are missing here is that by giving creators the protection of copyright, we, as a society, are making a deal. And part of that deal is that what the creators create will be available to everyone.

Where is that stated?