Oh-My Tony Blair Egged at book signing

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Yes. It's called a dictionary.

Thought so.

[abigsmurf]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

In my book that's communism, not socialism.

Interesting. I'd noticed the UK had flirted with communism. Now I see why.

One depressing thing is that Unite (big union) are infiltrating Labour now, trying to get their members into some of Labour's 'safe' seats. The leader of Unite was a member of the British communist party.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

In my book that's communism, not socialism.

In my book it's state capitalism.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by TGS

In my book it's state capitalism.

Wouldn't state capitalism be best defined as capitalism for the benefit of the state? That's not what the UK were trying to accomplish.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Wouldn't state capitalism be best defined as capitalism for the benefit of the state? That's not what the UK were trying to accomplish.

I don't think so - capitalist relations of production are those in which the surplus value of the labour of those who do the producing is extracted -the only difference between state capitalism and corporate capitalism is that the ownership and control of the means of production are in the hands of the state rather than in the hands of corporate capital. In neither case do those who produce have ownership and control of the means of production. As I said, the UK never got beyond nationalising a few industries, and in that sense was only ever a mixed economy - a mix of state and corporate capitalism.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by TGS

I don't think so - capitalist relations of production are those in which the surplus value of the labour of those who do the producing is extracted -the only difference between state capitalism and corporate capitalism is that the ownership and control of the means of production are in the hands of the state rather than in the hands of corporate capital. In neither case do those who produce have ownership and control of the means of production. As I said, the UK never got beyond nationalising a few industries, and in that sense was only ever a mixed economy - a mix of state and corporate capitalism.

When control of the means of production are in the hands of the state you have communism, not capitalism. Mislabeling it does not add anything to the discussion. It only confuses the matter, and I suspect that is why the term was created.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

When control of the means of production are in the hands of the state you have communism, not capitalism. Mislabeling it does not add anything to the discussion. It only confuses the matter, and I suspect that is why the term was created.

I think you are wrong - there is more than a merely terminological difference between communism and state capitalism - but from what you say, there is likely nothing I can say that will convince you of that.

[ceebee_uk]

Originally Posted by abigsmurf

One depressing thing is that Unite (big union) are infiltrating Labour now, trying to get their members into some of Labour's 'safe' seats. The leader of Unite was a member of the British communist party.

Sorry but the trades unions ARE the Labour party - at least they were before Blair got his hands on the party.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by abigsmurf

One depressing thing is that Unite (big union) are infiltrating Labour now, trying to get their members into some of Labour's 'safe' seats. The leader of Unite was a member of the British communist party.

In much of Europe identifying oneself as a communist and/or being a member of a communist party is a perfectly respectable position, (though it might appear a little quaint these days). Communist doesn't necessarily equal evil, (nor does in necessarily equal good!)