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Old 09-08-2013, 07:33 AM   #61
Spinnenmonat
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1. Du liegst schon richtig; das Problem: wieder wird es durch ein zusätzliches Wort klarer:

Er trachtete [danach,] Arnheim um die Wirkung zu bringen.


2. Das ist sehr merkwürdig formuliert. Eigentlich läuft man sich die Hacken, die Fersen, die Schuhsohlen etc. ab, wenn man z.B. lange herumlaufen muss, bis man etwas findet, was man sucht. Die Hörner stößt man sich normalerweise ab; das ist ein Ausdruck, der verwendet wird (bzw. wurde - ich finde, die Redewendung ist inzwischen etwas angestaubt), um zu sagen, dass jemand in seiner Jugend etwas wild ist und dann erwachsen und vernünftig wird.
Lieber Malakh, ich habe diesen Ausdruck im Wörterbuch der Redewendung von Duden gefunden. Man kann etweder sich die Hörner abstoßen oder sich die Hörner ablaufen. Die Herkunftsgeschichte von diesem Ausdruck ist ziemlich interessant.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:53 AM   #62
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Und nun wollen Sie dem in aller Gründlichkeit, deren Ihr Idealismus fähig ist, an den Leib rücken. (Seite 2223)

Ist "rücken" hier transitiv oder intransitiv? Welche Rolle spielt "dem" hier?
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:48 AM   #63
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Ich kenne die Formulierung als "jemandem/etwas auf den Leib rücken" im Sinne von "mit (meist unguter) Absicht näher kommen". Das Verb ist also transitiv - das- oder derjenige, dem da nähergekommen werden soll, ist das Objekt. Und das ist in obigem Satz eben besagtes "dem", das hoffentlich im vorherigen Satz genauer spezifiziert wurde.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #64
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Ich kenne die Formulierung als "jemandem/etwas auf den Leib rücken" im Sinne von "mit (meist unguter) Absicht näher kommen". Das Verb ist also transitiv - das- oder derjenige, dem da nähergekommen werden soll, ist das Objekt. Und das ist in obigem Satz eben besagtes "dem", das hoffentlich im vorherigen Satz genauer spezifiziert wurde.
Danke schön Gudy.
Ich habe große Angst von Redewendungen beim Lesen der deutschen Literatur, obwohl ich dazu ein geeignetes Wörterbuch habe. Diesen Ausdruck habe ich auch darin gefunden. Vielleicht soll ich später zuerst die verdächtigen Redewendungen in Wörterbüchern nachschlagen. Wenn ich nicht darüber informiert werde, dann wende ich mich zu euch.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:09 AM   #65
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Ich kenne die Formulierung als "jemandem/etwas auf den Leib rücken" im Sinne von "mit (meist unguter) Absicht näher kommen". Das Verb ist also transitiv - das- oder derjenige, dem da nähergekommen werden soll, ist das Objekt. Und das ist in obigem Satz eben besagtes "dem", das hoffentlich im vorherigen Satz genauer spezifiziert wurde.
Um ein bisschen rumzupingeln: Traditionell schulgrammatikalisch ist das Verb hier nicht transitiv, da es eben ein Dativ- und kein Akkusativobjekt bindet.

Die Linguisten scheinen allerdings teilweise auch von Transitivität zu reden, wenn ein Verb überhaupt ein Objekt hat. Letzteres entnehme ich zumindest der Schnelldurchsicht dieses, mit vielen Warnhinweisen versehenen, Wikipedia-Artikels.
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Old 09-10-2013, 04:53 AM   #66
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Um ein bisschen rumzupingeln: Traditionell schulgrammatikalisch ist das Verb hier nicht transitiv, da es eben ein Dativ- und kein Akkusativobjekt bindet.

Die Linguisten scheinen allerdings teilweise auch von Transitivität zu reden, wenn ein Verb überhaupt ein Objekt hat.
OK, danke für den Hinweis. Bei mir in der Schule hat nie jemand von Transitivität geredet - den Begriff habe ich erst mit der vertiefenden Erkundung der englischen Sprache kennengelernt - und die hat's mit Dativ und Akkusativ ja nicht so... :-)
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:19 AM   #67
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"Erinnern Sie sich," fragte er "daß vor nicht langer Zeit die Gemeindeverwaltung von Prag eine große Bestellung nach Frankreich vergehen hat, obgleich wir selbstverständlich auch ein Angebot gemacht hatten und besser und billiger geliefert hatten... (Seite 2243)

Warum "vergehen" hier nicht "vergangen"? Ist "vergehen" transitiv? "eine Bestellung vergehen".
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #68
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Ich würde sagen, das ist ein Druckfehler und muss "vergeben" heißen...
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #69
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Es ist ein Scanfehler, die Buchausgabe hat »vergeben«.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:30 AM   #70
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Ich würde sagen, das ist ein Druckfehler und muss "vergeben" heißen...
Bingo! Ich habe schon viele solche Beispiele bemerkt.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:31 AM   #71
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Bingo! Ich habe schon viele solche Beispiele bemerkt.
Hast du ’ne Liste?
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #72
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Hast du ’ne Liste?
Leider nicht
Aber du kannst "Heß" suchen, es kommt immer sehr merkwürdig vor.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:53 AM   #73
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»Heß« sollte natürlich »ließ« sein. Merkwürdig. Behaupten die bei GB.de nicht, dass die Texte korrekturgelesen werden? Wie übersieht man sowas?
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:07 PM   #74
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»Heß« sollte natürlich »ließ« sein. Merkwürdig. Behaupten die bei GB.de nicht, dass die Texte korrekturgelesen werden? Wie übersieht man sowas?
Die meisten Kapitel sind gut korrekturgelesen, aber einige nicht.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #75
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Heß, politisch natürlich äußerst auffällig, wird ABC-mäßig nicht hinreichend gewürdigt.
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