Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-17-2013, 01:22 PM   #61
Fbone
Is that a sandwich?
Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,186
Karma: 100500000
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Nook Glowlight Plus
There are emails from Amazon executive Laura Porco to various publishers. I don't know the contents because Amazon redacted them and the Judge won't permit them as evidence since Amazon is not a defendant. Perhaps, at trial we'll know more.

I agree it doesn't matter since Amazon is not a party to the DOJ action.

Amazon benefited greatly from Apple's system whether they realized it at the time or not.
Fbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:26 PM   #62
frahse
occasional author
frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frahse's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,314
Karma: 2064403292
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wandering God's glorious hills, valleys and plains.
Device: A Franklin BI (before Internet) was the first. I still have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
The Agency system is not at issue. Price fixing is.
Amazon's actions actions are not at issue, Apple's are.



Gee, how wise of him to focus the trial on the parties involved in the suit.
Is "well, someone else may have thought about this before" a valid defense now?

In related news, in the murder trial of John Smith, the defense has brought evidence that a childhood friend of Smith's once got angry at a waiter, and sent his steak back at a Outback Steak House. In spite of this revelation, the judge has said neither government of Australia, nor the steak will be the focus of the trial.
It is always useful to throw up a straw-man in order to distract from your problems.

ex.
Lawyer:
"Well, yes there are 4 witnesses that say Joe raped the alleged drunk victim in the back alley when the victim was staggering home, but it should be noted that many men bought the victim alcohol and many others made sexual commentary about the victim and in particular a priest, an out of work school bus drive and an off duty cop gave the victim really lascivious looks."
"Why are you only picking on my poor client?"
frahse is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 05-17-2013, 02:31 PM   #63
frahse
occasional author
frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frahse's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,314
Karma: 2064403292
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wandering God's glorious hills, valleys and plains.
Device: A Franklin BI (before Internet) was the first. I still have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Amazon's Agency offer would have been price fixing also. Executives at the major publishers are saying that the agreements are essentially the same.
I am having a hard time not sneering at that comment.
frahse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 02:45 PM   #64
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
An agency system in and of itself isn't the problem. It's already been ruled that such a system wouldn't be illegal. It's the collusion part that the trial is about.
Exactly.
The trial is about what was actually done, not what was discussed.

It should be noted that Random House was not charged even though they were a party to the collusion discussions.
They knew the others were colluding (and were even expected to join in, right up to iPad launch day) and at the last moment they decided (correctly) that joining in from day one would not be in their best interests.
They discussed an agency deal but did nothing illegal.
(And, as a matter of fact, by staying *out* of the conspiracy, they did gangbuster business for several months, which is why Apple and Penguin leaned on them to join the conspiracy..."or else".)

Similarly, whatever Amazon may or not have discussed in negotiations with the BPHs did not result in any action, did not result in any price hike, did not break antitrust.

"Deeds, not words."
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 03:01 PM   #65
Fbone
Is that a sandwich?
Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Fbone ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,186
Karma: 100500000
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Nook Glowlight Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post

Similarly, whatever Amazon may or not have discussed in negotiations with the BPHs did not result in any action, did not result in any price hike, did not break antitrust.
But, if true, it does answer a few questions I had.

One ... what was the "sensitive" information that Amazon fought rather strongly not to be revealed and that the publishers knew about. Amazon already released their financials.

Two ... what was Amazon's proposal that the publishers disliked so much that they jumped aboard Apple's even at risk of lawsuit.

Again, I don't care what happens to Apple. On a personal level the outcome won't mean anything to me. I didn't purchase Agency titles before and I don't purchase after as they are still not discounted.
Fbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 05-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #66
JoeD
Guru
JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 895
Karma: 4383958
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: na
If Amazon were in talks about agency pricing, all they likely* needed to do to stay in the clear would probably be to not mention to any publisher that they're even in talks with any other publisher about pricing/contracts.

The snippets of emails that have been released as part of the Apple investigation, show a different situation between Apple and the publishers.

* I'm guessing since I'm not a lawyer, so could very well be wrong.

Last edited by JoeD; 05-17-2013 at 06:18 PM.
JoeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #67
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Whatever Amazon redacted, the feds saw and did nothing.
Me, I don't particularly care what they offered up since it wasn't acted upon but if I absolutely had to speculate, I suspect they offered up a 70-30 split baselined at $9.99 (max).
That is pretty much what they offer to indie publishers.

Last edited by fjtorres; 05-17-2013 at 07:19 PM.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 07:20 AM   #68
Caleb666
Zealot
Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Caleb666 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 100
Karma: 400000
Join Date: Jul 2010
Device: iPad 2 64GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
The NYT report has other quotes. Just as damning, though:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/te...ing.html?_r=1&

Quote:
[...] After Random House finally agreed to a contract on Jan. 18, 2011, Eddy Cue, the Apple executive in charge of its e-books deals, sent an e-mail to Mr. Jobs attributing the publisher’s capitulation, in part, to “the fact that I prevented an app from Random House from going live in the app store,” the filing reads. [...]
So that's where Sargent got the idea!
I know that this thread mostly deals with the price-fixing thing, but the quote above also shows you how evil the whole concept of a centralized app store is. That is a clear example of Apple blocking someone's app for no good reason (I wonder if this violates their own app publishing license agreement?).
Caleb666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 12:58 PM   #69
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb666 View Post
I know that this thread mostly deals with the price-fixing thing, but the quote above also shows you how evil the whole concept of a centralized app store is. That is a clear example of Apple blocking someone's app for no good reason (I wonder if this violates their own app publishing license agreement?).
Apple had better be careful with that App store because using Appstore access as a tool to force people to deal with other parts of their business is very close to the classic "tying" antitrust behavior.
So far its just a sleazy negotiating tactic with would be partners but if they try it on anybody who might be legally-speaking a consumer, they'd be in a world of trouble.

It is also close to classic racketeering but since close only counts in horsehoes and hand grenades they only have to deal with collusion charges, so far.

They really shouldn't be pushing their luck right now; unless the DOJ settlement requires them to divest the iBooks operation (not impossible) they really need to settle his before more of their dirty deeds get out in the open. Once those things come out in federal court they become fair game for civil trials. And deep pockets attract ambulance chaser like roadkill attracts flies.

The longer this goes on, the bigger a target they become.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 05:58 PM   #70
frahse
occasional author
frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frahse's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,314
Karma: 2064403292
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wandering God's glorious hills, valleys and plains.
Device: A Franklin BI (before Internet) was the first. I still have it.
I saw a few minutes ago where Apple is defending its tax strategies saying they didn't use any sneaky tactics.

First tax avoidance is not tax evasion whether for a company or an individual.

What is legal, is legal (Period!)

Second I find it uncomfortable defending Apple, but right is right (Period!)
frahse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 02:15 PM   #71
Edward_R
Zealot
Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Edward_R ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 111
Karma: 516224
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest (about 35 miles northeast of Seattle)
Device: K3 / HP 10" Tablet (FBreader Installed)
Quote:
Originally Posted by frahse View Post
I saw a few minutes ago where Apple is defending its tax strategies saying they didn't use any sneaky tactics.

First tax avoidance is not tax evasion whether for a company or an individual.

What is legal, is legal (Period!)

Second I find it uncomfortable defending Apple, but right is right (Period!)
Not quite sure what Apple's tax avoidance has to do with DOJ's case against them.
Edward_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #72
frahse
occasional author
frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.frahse ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
frahse's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,314
Karma: 2064403292
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wandering God's glorious hills, valleys and plains.
Device: A Franklin BI (before Internet) was the first. I still have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward_R View Post
Not quite sure what Apple's tax avoidance has to do with DOJ's case against them.
You mean of course the DOJ's antitrust case.
I agree the remark I made doesn't address that directly.

However it does show Apple's great efforts legal (or not so legal) to protect itself, and to enrich itself.

Granted "everyone does it" but Apple seems to really hammer the nails it strikes very hard in all areas. Sometimes it seems they would have been better served to use a "nail setter" so as not to damage the surrounding surfaces and finishes.

All this points out an arrogance at Apple that states that they feel that they are above the law, above sensible propriety.

I feel that Apple is unethical.
frahse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 06:05 PM   #73
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 11,732
Karma: 128354696
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by frahse View Post
I feel that Apple is unethical.
The Apple employees suing Apple (and half of SiliValley) for the conspiracy to depress their salaries and deprive them of employment mobility strongly agree.

Apple is also being penny-foolish; screwing the competition is hardcore business--screwing your own staff while raking in money by the billions is downright stupid.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 01:11 AM   #74
forsooth
tec montage
forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.forsooth ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
forsooth's Avatar
 
Posts: 435
Karma: 544444445
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: harsh unforgiving places
Device: kindles, lenovo, chromebook, mobiles
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
The Apple employees suing Apple (and half of SiliValley) for the conspiracy to depress their salaries and deprive them of employment mobility strongly agree.

Apple is also being penny-foolish; screwing the competition is hardcore business--screwing your own staff while raking in money by the billions is downright stupid.
all this is hard for person from Eastern Europe to understand.

great freedom though also great foolishness

my wife attempts to re-educate me in the new world a lot
my children laugh sometimes
my elders warn me a lot
forsooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 01:48 AM   #75
rkw
Old & Busted Hotness
rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkw ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 182
Karma: 1290260
Join Date: Apr 2012
Device: Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0,Asus TF700T, K1-2-3-Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by forsooth View Post
all this is hard for person from Eastern Europe to understand.

great freedom though also great foolishness

my wife attempts to re-educate me in the new world a lot
my children laugh sometimes
my elders warn me a lot
what doesn't seem to xlate for you? more details seem necessary for your comment to have any meaning.
rkw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
U.S. Justice Dept. to Sue Publishers, Apple, for Price Collusion? charmian News 229 03-22-2012 03:10 AM
U.S. Justice Dept. moves to block AT&T, T-Mobile merger afa News 3 09-01-2011 10:34 AM
Conn AG targets Amazon and Apple for price-fixing gastan News 4 08-05-2010 09:47 AM
Google and the Court and the Justice Dept. kennyc News 6 09-19-2009 07:43 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:27 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.