Please support my Report Bad Formatting Button petition for Kindle books! - Page 2

angelbleu · 12-20-2009, 08:59 PM

I support this whole-heartedly.

Few things are worse than having to suffer through a poorly formatted e-book, especially one that you've paid good money for!

Maybe we could make a point of returning poorly formatted books, so that Amazon will see that we "mean business"?

Anarel · 12-20-2009, 09:25 PM

Thanks, angelbleu. If you have an Amazon account and can spare a moment, please post "I support" or something like it on the thread over at the discussion thread @ the Amazon Discussion forums with the link at the top of my first post.

I always return poorly formatted books, but for every one of us that does, I imagine many more people, "just deal with it" because they have paid for it and don't feel like returning or whatever.

Anarel · 12-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Update bump.

Anarel · 12-23-2009, 08:38 AM

Yet another update.

Nathan Campos · 12-23-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

ummmm

no.

we get together and help each other and authors when asked, but not like this

I agree.

ifonline · 12-23-2009, 02:33 PM

I'll ask again... why not like this? Care to elaborate?

Anarel · 12-23-2009, 05:52 PM

I would like to know why, as well.

Anarel · 12-25-2009, 10:51 AM

Christmas Bump!

Anarel · 12-29-2009, 12:04 PM

BuMp!

pshrynk · 12-30-2009, 12:20 PM

Please stop bumping the thread. If it is of interest, it will continue on its own. If you want to bring the topic up again, feel free to start a new thread.

Thanks!

pshrynk (moderator)

donovan1983 · 12-31-2009, 01:17 PM

I don't think this would be a good idea to do on the book page itself. Something like Netflix's "Report a Problem" button on your account page would not be a bad idea. If the formatting of a book is so bad, though, can't you just get a refund for it? I've never had to return an ebook so not sure how that would work but I would think there would be a refund or exchange process in place for a truly badly formatted ebook.

Some of the things brought up by the OP are not really "bad formatting" but "I don't like the formatting of this book". Bad formatting is things like characters routinely missing (like apostrophes replaced by question marks or boxes) or the table of contents links being bad, which affect the readability or usability of the ebook. Not liking spacing between paragraphs, for example, is a matter of taste. Also, if you are bugged by Topaz ebooks, don't buy them. I don't like them and use the sampling feature to make sure a book is not in Topaz format before buying.

Anarel · 01-01-2010, 10:57 AM

Donovan,

Look, if the print version of the book doesn't have those massive spaces between each paragraph, then the ebook shouldn't, either. It's not a layout decision; why would publishers change the way the ook is laid out just because it's an ebook version? Most other ebooks mirror their print counterparts, why are other people getting it so wrong?

Yes, I use the sample feature, and if I don't like the look of it I won't buy it. And if I purchase one without sampling to find terrible errors in the book, I refund it. But I don't just want to settle, refunding and moving on to something else is settling for less than I deserve for the money I have paid.

I wanted to purchase that book, and I don't want to suffer reading a sub-par product to do it.

You say that it's a matter of taste and I wholly disagree; the error might not bother you so much, and other people have stated that they can look past it, but whether you can ignore it or not, it is still very much an error and should not be so.

I included in the first post an example of many other ebooks in which there is no difference between the print and ebook edition; it should be the same for all ebooks.

netseeker · 01-02-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarel

I included in the first post an example of many other ebooks in which there is no difference between the print and ebook edition; it should be the same for all ebooks.

So do you return a paperback if the hardcover edition uses another font, another paper size, other margins, other paragraph spaces or another layout in general? Why should eBooks look exactly the same as printed books? Different "screen" sizes, different technologies, different possibilities, different reading experience.

There is a big difference between "formatting errors" and "i want exactly the same formatting as in the printed edition X".

DMcCunney · 01-02-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarel

Donovan,

Look, if the print version of the book doesn't have those massive spaces between each paragraph, then the ebook shouldn't, either. It's not a layout decision; why would publishers change the way the ook is laid out just because it's an ebook version? Most other ebooks mirror their print counterparts, why are other people getting it so wrong?

Then there's the other side of the coin, where the ebook can't mirror the design of the pbook.

For example, I did design and print production, back when the tools of the trade were T-squares, eXacto knives, rubber cement, and typeset galleys off a photo-typositor. DTP didn't exist, because the hardware it could run on didn't, and wouldn't for years. I still have design volumes in my library like _Production for the Graphic Designer_ and _Design With Type_. Many of these use multi-column layouts and formatting that can't be done on ebook reader devices. To reproduce the book as intended, you would have to do it as PDF, and you wouldn't want it to re-flow to fit a smaller device screen.

A friend is a DTP specialist for a major publisher, and spends her days doing typesetting and markup. She wants to be involved in the ebook side of things, and I explained issues like device constraints. "The book is set in 11 point Monotype Bembo on a 13 point body? That won't translate. The display device won't have Monotype Bembo, or that precise a control over line spacing."

Some devices are more constrained than others. My principal reader is a Palm OS PDA. Palm OS has a set number of slots for fonts, with names like Standard, Bold, Large, and Large Bold. By default, these are mapped to fonts in device ROM. I converted some True Type fonts to a format Palm OS can display, and I've done things like customize the fonts Mobi Reader for Palm OS uses for text with a hack that maps one of my custom fonts into the slot where Palm OS looks for the standard text font. But that's global for all MobiPocket volumes. It won't reproduce what fonts the original book used, because it can't.

As the hardware gets cheaper and more powerful, I expect this issue to fade (though not got go away entirely.) Meanwhile, I do the best I can on formatting when creating an ebook, and the type geek in me mourns what I can't do.
______
Dennis

Anarel · 01-02-2010, 04:41 PM

I know that there some limitations, but for the basics, like the way paragraphs are laid out, aren't that complicated. And when they can't even get that right....

12-20-2009, 09:25 PM	#17
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	Thanks, angelbleu. If you have an Amazon account and can spare a moment, please post "I support" or something like it on the thread over at the discussion thread @ the Amazon Discussion forums with the link at the top of my first post. I always return poorly formatted books, but for every one of us that does, I imagine many more people, "just deal with it" because they have paid for it and don't feel like returning or whatever. Last edited by Anarel; 12-21-2009 at 02:24 PM.

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12-20-2009, 08:59 PM	#16
angelbleu Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Korea (South) Device: Blackberry Bold	I support this whole-heartedly. Few things are worse than having to suffer through a poorly formatted e-book, especially one that you've paid good money for! Maybe we could make a point of returning poorly formatted books, so that Amazon will see that we "mean business"?

12-21-2009, 02:23 PM	#18
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	Update bump.

12-23-2009, 08:38 AM	#19
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	Yet another update.

12-23-2009, 02:33 PM	#21
ifonline Connoisseur Posts: 89 Karma: 26 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Braselton, GA Device: Kindle 3, iPad	I'll ask again... why not like this? Care to elaborate?

12-23-2009, 05:52 PM	#22
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	I would like to know why, as well.

12-25-2009, 10:51 AM	#23
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	Christmas Bump!

12-29-2009, 12:04 PM	#24
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	BuMp!

12-30-2009, 12:20 PM	#25
pshrynk Beepbeep n beebeep, yeah! Posts: 11,726 Karma: 8255450 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin, aka America's IceBox Device: iThingie, KmkII, I miss Zelda!	Please stop bumping the thread. If it is of interest, it will continue on its own. If you want to bring the topic up again, feel free to start a new thread. Thanks! pshrynk (moderator)

12-31-2009, 01:17 PM	#26
donovan1983 Member Posts: 23 Karma: 475310 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I don't think this would be a good idea to do on the book page itself. Something like Netflix's "Report a Problem" button on your account page would not be a bad idea. If the formatting of a book is so bad, though, can't you just get a refund for it? I've never had to return an ebook so not sure how that would work but I would think there would be a refund or exchange process in place for a truly badly formatted ebook. Some of the things brought up by the OP are not really "bad formatting" but "I don't like the formatting of this book". Bad formatting is things like characters routinely missing (like apostrophes replaced by question marks or boxes) or the table of contents links being bad, which affect the readability or usability of the ebook. Not liking spacing between paragraphs, for example, is a matter of taste. Also, if you are bugged by Topaz ebooks, don't buy them. I don't like them and use the sampling feature to make sure a book is not in Topaz format before buying.

01-01-2010, 10:57 AM	#27
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	Donovan, Look, if the print version of the book doesn't have those massive spaces between each paragraph, then the ebook shouldn't, either. It's not a layout decision; why would publishers change the way the ook is laid out just because it's an ebook version? Most other ebooks mirror their print counterparts, why are other people getting it so wrong? Yes, I use the sample feature, and if I don't like the look of it I won't buy it. And if I purchase one without sampling to find terrible errors in the book, I refund it. But I don't just want to settle, refunding and moving on to something else is settling for less than I deserve for the money I have paid. I wanted to purchase that book, and I don't want to suffer reading a sub-par product to do it. You say that it's a matter of taste and I wholly disagree; the error might not bother you so much, and other people have stated that they can look past it, but whether you can ignore it or not, it is still very much an error and should not be so. I included in the first post an example of many other ebooks in which there is no difference between the print and ebook edition; it should be the same for all ebooks.

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01-02-2010, 04:41 PM	#30
Anarel Evangelist Posts: 424 Karma: 61399 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: K1, GKDX, K3	I know that there some limitations, but for the basics, like the way paragraphs are laid out, aren't that complicated. And when they can't even get that right....