Onyx Boox i86

[AscenZ]

Now that it's Aug 20th already, is the trial batch done?

[babadockia]

Originally Posted by afainber

I can share a small app that I written that turns on and off the status bar - that's the simplest way. For people who want something more advanced, I can try to guide how to do it, or even write an alternative app, if it's simple enough.



Hmmmm.... I tried to use the xposed framework plugin to remove the status bar and it didn't work (that was before I talked to onyx dev ), but I didn't think of full!screen back then (though I did use it in the past on my phone). Does it actually work? Does it also restore the status bar correctly as well?

yes, it does work. the thing is, I don't care about the status bar. from what I can say, for me it shouldn't be there in the first place. it is a reader, guys, not a tablet. and yes, i don't care about casualty, or correlation, or anything like that, all that I care is that my reader won't be dying after 3 days.

[AscenZ]

Originally Posted by Feher

Thanks for sharing the news.

I would prefer an 8 inch screen to 6.8 inch.

But i am not at all excited. Onyx has been teasing us with android for the past 15 months. It may take them another year to finally launch their Android 4.0 ereaders.


Regarding Touch : I read that IR touch display is superior to capacitive touch display in clarity/visibility

Booxstors says the arrival of i86 has been postponed to the end of October.

[greenwavelet]

It's too much of a coincidence that all the 8" readers (i86, Bookeen Ocean, PocketBook InkPad, Texet TB-418FL -- I've seen no mention of it since April, so doesn't look like it ever sold outside Russian) keep getting delayed repeatedly...

Earlier this year, I was thinking of buying the Icarus 8; there were very few places that actually had it in stock, and the Icarus site didn't mention it in the Products section, although the support docs were available. I wrote them, and they replied they had discontinued it because of not having a backlight (at the time, it had been on the market less than 6 months), but will have a new model with backlight in 2015. (IIRC, some previous Icarus models were rebadged Onyxes, which is why this is relevant). A couple of weeks days later, the Icarus was no longer available at any store I checked in Europe.

I'm starting to think that all these vendors don't see enough demand for 8" devices, for whatever reason, so they keep postponing.

I don't see another reason for all the delays -- readers are fairly simple devices, both HW- and software-wise, and apart from the screen, the components are all well established and not top-of-the-line; there have been very few really new features since the original Kindle popularized the category, so designing a new one is mostly iteration on previous products.

This is a shame, since I really want an 8" reader -- it needn't be much larger than my current 6" Kindle Keyboard -- which would be my ideal form factor for reading fiction. I very strongly prefer e-ink / equivalent display tech to LCDs (I also live in a very sunny locale, so LCDs are simply not legible outside), but if a decent 8" isn't actually being sold very soon, I'll probably give up and buy one of the very many inexpensive android tablets instead...

[AscenZ]

Originally Posted by greenwavelet

It's too much of a coincidence that all the 8" readers (i86, Bookeen Ocean, PocketBook InkPad, Texet TB-418FL -- I've seen no mention of it since April, so doesn't look like it ever sold outside Russian) keep getting delayed repeatedly...

Earlier this year, I was thinking of buying the Icarus 8; there were very few places that actually had it in stock, and the Icarus site didn't mention it in the Products section, although the support docs were available. I wrote them, and they replied they had discontinued it because of not having a backlight (at the time, it had been on the market less than 6 months), but will have a new model with backlight in 2015. (IIRC, some previous Icarus models were rebadged Onyxes, which is why this is relevant). A couple of weeks days later, the Icarus was no longer available at any store I checked in Europe.

I'm starting to think that all these vendors don't see enough demand for 8" devices, for whatever reason, so they keep postponing.

I don't see another reason for all the delays -- readers are fairly simple devices, both HW- and software-wise, and apart from the screen, the components are all well established and not top-of-the-line; there have been very few really new features since the original Kindle popularized the category, so designing a new one is mostly iteration on previous products.

This is a shame, since I really want an 8" reader -- it needn't be much larger than my current 6" Kindle Keyboard -- which would be my ideal form factor for reading fiction. I very strongly prefer e-ink / equivalent display tech to LCDs (I also live in a very sunny locale, so LCDs are simply not legible outside), but if a decent 8" isn't actually being sold very soon, I'll probably give up and buy one of the very many inexpensive android tablets instead...

I plan to wait until end of September and see if any dealers will be taking pre-orders. That might be a good indication if the devices will be even further postponed.

[maxlauhk]

If the device will be less buggy with the delay, I would rather wait.

[AscenZ]

Originally Posted by maxlauhk

If the device will be less buggy with the delay, I would rather wait.

The trial batch should already have been finished. At this point, I doubt there's much to do with if there's any more hardware glitches.

[pintu98761]

Friends since i am in direct contact with onyx, so latest news i got directly from company
"here needs some time to improve the mould .The hardware and software is OK but the case needs to be further improvement.Anyway, once they finalise everything I will confirm you. Thank you". Any further information will b shared and also they are expected it to launch in nov, thanx

[greenwavelet]

Folks, 3 weeks ago they told Pintu mass production will be in Sept. Now they tell AscenZ sales begin end of Oct., and now they tell Pintu a November launch (and "launch" doesn't necessarily even mean start of retail sales...)

In my world, there's a technical term for this: Vaporware.

Not saying it's just Onyx -- all the vendors seem to be in the same position; out of curiosity I just checked if the TrekStor Pyrus Maxi (simplest 8" reader: no touch, backlight, audio or even WiFi) that was officially sold is still on the market, and turns out it's not available anywhere... I suspect it was never mass produced.

Given all the delays, I wouldn't pre-order a reader with such a history of delays.
I spend many hours I spend with a reader, I wouldn't order one once it was sold until there are many reviews out by normal users, who have been using it for several months at least (to have an idea of the basic reliability -- the PocketBook 8" is getting very bad reviews initially). If the i86 only starts getting sold in Nov., earliest I would buy is Feb., which is too far.

I hate LCD screens, but looks like I need to start looking if there are decent 8" 4:3 aspect ratio tablets with reasonable contrast...

[rkomar]

"Vapourware" is something that doesn't exist, but has been invented to keep would-be customers from buying existing products from competing businesses. It is purely a marketing ploy. The 8" readers are not yet available because of problems with production. That is quite different from being vapourware.

[greenwavelet]

That not how I know and use the term (and I've been professionally involved in R&D for software and hardware for 35 years); it doesn't necessarily mean the product doesn't and never existed, and is only a marketing poy, only that it's not available to the public after repeated announcements & delays. That was the original historical use of the term (see the Wikipedia article).

I didn't claim (nor do I think) that Onyx or the other vendors set out to mislead the market intentionally; however, given that even existing devices (Icarus 8, Pyrus Maxi) were discontinued after months on the market it looks like the market for the 8" e-ink devices is small, so the companies are being very cautious about committing mass production to it.

As to why the market is small, I'm not sure, but after doing research this morning, I found out that an equivalent 8" LCD 4:3 Android tablet from a reputable vendor is < $150 in the US (and there are no-name store brands for as little as $100(!)), maybe it's not surprising.

[rkomar]

Hmm, the Wikipedia article says that you have it backwards. The original meaning derived from "selling smoke" (i.e. marketing something that barely existed), and that later the press took to using it to describe products that were continuously delayed. It seems that the problem with the 8" devices is that the original capacitive layer is degrading the contrast, and it's taking time to do a new production run with a different (hopefully better) capacitive layer. Since the original display made it to market in Russia, I would not call it vapourware; it's just a failed product. Personally, I'm glad they're taking the time to do it right before releasing it again.

[greenwavelet]

Sorry, looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. Not sure if you were around then, but Xenix (Microsoft's version of Unix) already existed as a real product several years at that time; I actually did a SW development project using it in early 1984, and remember it well.

What happened, and gave rise to Esther Dyson's famous article, was that Microsoft decided to stop further support & development, but didn't communicate it. It wasn't a marketing ploy, because this was a programming tool, not consumer software, and at the time Microsoft didn't really do active marketing to that segment. The original article is here, where Dyson defines it as "good ideas incompletely implemented".
Sure, vaporware also includes cases where the product never existed in the first place and was fake, like the fraudulent demo of the Ovation office suite, but that usage was later.

Anyway, back to e-readers, while I hope you're right, I'm doubtful.
a specific issue with the panel used on the InkPad and Onyx i86 is one thing, but that wouldn't be relevant to the also-delayed Bookeen Ocean & TeXet (no mention of it since March) which use different panels; for that matter, neither would it explain the discontinued Pyrus Maxi or Icarus 8.

[rkomar]

Okay, I see where you're coming from viz Xenix. I guess there the vapour refers to the implicit expectation of future development. Since the new 8" devices are still being developed, I still don't see them as vapourware. I thought you were referring to the continual delays as being the reason for calling the readers vapourware, and that usage of the term did come later in the press.

As far as the other 8" readers go, didn't they have low resolution screens? They were probably marketed at people with poor vision, who just wanted a larger display without the detail. Many of those people are old, and maybe they don't want a larger, heavier reader to hold. I think the new, high resolution 8" displays are for a different market, i.e. those who want to look at more detail in the display (e.g. PDF files). We'll have to see how big that market is, but I don't think you can use the failure of the Trekstor device to predict the future of the Onyx and PocketBook devices.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by greenwavelet

As to why the market is small, I'm not sure, but after doing research this morning, I found out that an equivalent 8" LCD 4:3 Android tablet from a reputable vendor is < $150 in the US (and there are no-name store brands for as little as $100(!)), maybe it's not surprising.

Can you give an example, please? LCD Android devices with a 4:3 aspect ratio are rather unusual - almost all have 16:10 aspect ratio screens.