An eccentric request: 1,000 page Indie novel

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

My Kobo Glo gives a count of ONLY 730 pages ... Sob.......

I am sure that you are using font that is too small

Seriously, with e-books we should talk about number of words or the size of the raw text file ...

Do not despair. Some of books from Senadar Universe are a bit longer. Part three of Firestaff series, Honor and Blood has 3.1MB of raw txt file as compared to 1.8MB that the first part has.

Or, you could roll the first 5 books into one file and pretend it is just one *very* long fantasy novel, the first part of two-book series ;-)
The author is clearly not interested in marketing, or even publishing his books [other than posting them on a site], so the division into the individual books is arbitrary. Those books were appearing on his site as individual chapters as he wrote them (from what I understand).

Please let us know how you like the books - Senadar Universe and also Blood Song.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by kacir

Well, I do not know how rich or wealthy this author is, but he has very decent book available for download on his site
I have been trying to remember this where I found this series ever since I have seen the first post in this thread.

See thread:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22184
Ooops ... The site is no longer available, but the wayback machine might by your friend. The last working shapshot is here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200805091....sennadar.com/ ,it looks however that the links to books does not work anymore. Sigh ... I will try to find the book on some [legal] place on the net.

Another site linking to his books: http://www.weavespinner.net/worlds_of_fel.htm
EDIT 2 - towards the bottom of the page there are download links for the books
You want to download 5 books of Firestaff series and three books of Pyrosian Chronicles

Fel has a few nice reviews on the goodreads:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...wer-of-sorcery
And under his full name:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...wer-of-sorcery
Again, one of highest scores on Goodreads.
In two separate entries.

I have read the book[s]. For the first 150 pages it is just a pretty decent run-of-the-mill, generic fantasy, then it gets really interesting ... see some reviews ;-)

EDIT 1:
It looks like the sennadar forum is still alive
http://forums.sennadar.com/index.php

Thanks for the link.

[sherman]

Way back when, I created new epub versions of the Firestaff series.

http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic...p=21756#p21756

It was a really great story (I liked it anyway...), if you are willing to overlook the fact it could use a good edit. The nature of the chapter by chapter release means the author repeated stuff a lot etc.

EDIT: Oh, and Don?

Book three contains 1,167 ADE Pages...

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

But maybe....just maybe....there's an independently wealthy Indie author who just might write that 1000-plus page novel. Maybe.

I don't know if he is wealthy, but Edward Robertson's The White Tree, available at Amazon and B&N, runs, on my Nook just a few pages shy of 1,000 (I don't have it in front of me, but I think it runs 970 pages). I'm reading it now and I don't think it is as good as his breaker series, which books run about 500 pages each.

Daniel Arenson's Dragonlore: The Complete Trilogy (read this second) and Song of the Dragons: The Complete Trilogy (read this first), also available at Amazon and B&N, with individual components available also at Smashwords, come in at about 1700 pages each. I know they each are 3 books in 1, but if you read them, they really are each a complete story that got divided, I think, for marketing. These are excellent.

[Dr. Drib]

Amazon's page count indicates that 'The White Tree' is only 430 pages in length.





Don

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Amazon's page count indicates that 'The White Tree' is only 430 pages in length.

Don

Give us a target word count; a lot of indie books are sold in formats that don't measure length in pages.

Wikipedia's list of longest novels has Atlas Shrugged at 1088 pages and 645,000 words; Les Misérables is listed at 1488 pages and 531k words. Gone with the Wind, not on that list, is 1037 pages in paperback and ~418,000 words.

However, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is 759 pages long and not quite 200,000 words. If it were extended to 1000 pages, that'd be less than 275,000 words.

From a few lists online, it seems that books known to be "1000 pages long" are about half a million words, with some variation for font size. And there aren't many mainstream novels of that length--several dozen, to be sure, but not hundreds, so it's unsurprising that there are few indie novels of that size.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Give us a target word count; a lot of indie books are sold in formats that don't measure length in pages.

Wikipedia's list of longest novels has Atlas Shrugged at 1088 pages and 645,000 words; Les Misérables is listed at 1488 pages and 531k words. Gone with the Wind, not on that list, is 1037 pages in paperback and ~418,000 words.

I have opened Honor and blood - the third part of the Firestaff collection by James Galloway (downloaded in *.doc format) in Libre Office and used the "word count" function. It has 546,000 words.

As per the post number 11 of this thread, Here are some word-counts
"As an example of what I'm looking for (purely as an example of length), use these five titles as a guideline:

1) War and Peace - 587,287 New American Library Version
2) The Stand - 520,000
3) Swan Song
4) Carrion Comfort
5) Atlas Shrugged - 645,000

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Amazon's page count indicates that 'The White Tree' is only 430 pages in length.

I checked Amazon and that's for the print book. I looked last night, and on my Nook Tablet, as an ebook, the count is 949.

If you are looking for the equivalent of 1,000 printed pages, I think you will have difficulty finding what you want. There is no equivalency between print and ebook "pages".

A standard measure in the publishing industry for determining a "page" is 250 words (regardless of word length) = 1 page. Applying that standard, you would need to find an ebook of at least 250,000 words. I think that will greatly limit the field, especially among indies.

Forgetting indies, and just going by length, James Clavell's Shogun would meet your length criteria. Amazon says it is 1152 pages "based on the print edition". I realize that Clavell is not an indie author, but my point is that today it is very rare for publisher's or indie authors to publish fiction of that length. Instead, they break the books into parts and sell a series. It produces greater revenue, assuming it sells, and in the case of print editions, at much lower costs. (Binding costs are problematic for 1,000+ page print books.)

If you use as your search term at Amazon "1000 page books", it brings up 9 results, not all books, and none actually meet your criteria. However, here is one that apparently does: http://www.amazon.com/Turn-the-page-...00+page+ebooks. It is estimated to be 1004 pages, with Amazon saying that estimated means "The estimated length is calculated using the number of page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book."

There is on Amazon a XXX ebook that is estimated at 737 pages

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rhadin

If you use as your search term at Amazon "1000 page books", it brings up 9 results, not all books, and none actually meet your criteria. However, here is one that apparently does: http://www.amazon.com/Turn-the-page-...00+page+ebooks. It is estimated to be 1004 pages, with Amazon saying that estimated means "The estimated length is calculated using the number of page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book."

Did you use the "look inside" feature on that one?
"A conceptual artist's ebook."

[Dr. Drib]

I recognize that it's not economically feasible for an Indie writer to commit to such a long book, unless it is conceptually and artistically within the author's vision for such a work to be of that length in the first place.

My point is that I have read works of that length throughout my reading and academic career. (At one time I was working on my Ph.D in English Literature, so I was very cognizant of literary works of that length or greater.)

On the Indie front, however, works of great length seem to be about as plentiful as the Dodo bird and, even when one does exist, it appears to have little (if any) literary reading merit except as a work of curiosity.

But....I love long novels. Indie writers may be the death of literature (which is another topic and/or another thread), but I still long to read a lengthy work by an Indie writer.

I read Indie writers. They have their place in the scheme of things, even though many (or few?) may not be aware of any purpose served except as one which sits couched within the context of a self-serving promotional paradigm.

So......we shall see.

My fingers are crossed for that Indie writer with artistic vision...for that Indie writer with two reams of paper.




Don

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

On the Indie front, however, works of great length seem to be about as plentiful as the Dodo bird and, even when one does exist, it appears to have little (if any) literary reading merit except as a work of curiosity.

But....I love long novels. Indie writers may be the death of literature (which is another topic and/or another thread), but I still long to read a lengthy work by an Indie writer.

I read Indie writers. They have their place in the scheme of things, even though many (or few?) may not be aware of any purpose served except as one which sits couched within the context of a self-serving promotional paradigm.

So......we shall see.

My fingers are crossed for that Indie writer with artistic vision...for that Indie writer with two reams of paper.




Don

1- It's early.
2- Indie publishing is dominated by the recreational genres; the lit-fit genre is still thoroughly wedded to the traditional, validation-by-contract paradigm
3- It's early.
4- Most indies are trying to establish themselves first, before getting all ambitious-like.
5- It's early.
6- It takes time to cough up a 1000-page masterpiece (unless you're James Patterson or Nora Roberts). Self-pub has only been "respectable" for two years; hardly enough time for an indie (usually part-timer) to deliver a 500K word mega-novel. I believe the rule of thumb is that a veteran can feel satisfied if he/she can produce an average of 1000 words per day of finished prose. That is 500 days in a row, no days off, no vacation. No day job.
7- It's early.
8- There are (monster) masterpieces coming but it'll be a while before there is enough content to even worry about Sturgeon's law.
9- It's early.
10- Come back in 5-10 years.

[Dazrin]

I think we will see it happen, but not necessarily published all at once. I think the Indie model will be to write a single story but package it in a serial form so they can make their living a little better. Most people (now) are unwilling to spend much for an indie but several smaller works is an easier sell.

Something similar to the serial novels of the 1800s that were published in magazines with one installment a month or so.

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

I recognize that it's not economically feasible for an Indie writer to commit to such a long book, unless it is conceptually and artistically within the author's vision for such a work to be of that length in the first place.

My point is that I have read works of that length throughout my reading and academic career. (At one time I was working on my Ph.D in English Literature, so I was very cognizant of literary works of that length or greater.)

On the Indie front, however, works of great length seem to be about as plentiful as the Dodo bird and, even when one does exist, it appears to have little (if any) literary reading merit except as a work of curiosity.

But....I love long novels. Indie writers may be the death of literature (which is another topic and/or another thread), but I still long to read a lengthy work by an Indie writer.

I read Indie writers. They have their place in the scheme of things, even though many (or few?) may not be aware of any purpose served except as one which sits couched within the context of a self-serving promotional paradigm.

So......we shall see.

My fingers are crossed for that Indie writer with artistic vision...for that Indie writer with two reams of paper.

Don

[DuaneAA]

A lot of people have commented how three 300 page serialized novels makes more economic sense than a 1000 page novel, which is why we haven't seen many 1000 page novels. I think the case can also be made that the market for 1000 page novels is also much smaller than the market for 300 page novels, as another reason 1000 page novels will always be a niche market at best.

Like many other Indie writers, I started on the fanfiction side. And I have written a 350,000 word fanfiction. My personal estimate from counting words in several paperbacks is that 350 words is the typical page length, so I think my story meets your 1000 page criteria. My experience is that while writing and posting chapters of the story, it got quite a few hits, in the same range as I things I have done. But after it was finished, so a reader go sit down and read it straight through, it gets a lot less hits than other things I have written that are more in the 50,000 to 70,000 word range. Plus my 350,000 word story consists of 24 chapters averaging 15,000 words or about 40 pages and I got lots of people sending me comments that my chapters were too long! I don't know if this is unique to fanfiction or part of the steadily shorting attention span you always hear people talkng about.

However, at least to me, a 1000 page fanfiction story is a very different beast than a regular 1000 page novel. It took me three-and-a-half years to write it, posting it a chapter at a time, so I posted a new chapter typically every six weeks to two months. If you were only getting new parts that infrequently, it seemed like each part had to be effectively its own short story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. The completed story ended up being more like a season of some TV show where there was an overall arc to the story, but each chapter or episode had to be able to stand somewhat on its own. This is very different from what a normal thousand page novel has to do since the reader is getting the whole story at once.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the topic,
Duane