Do you consider apple products to be closed hardware/software?

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

And how is that different from any other corporation?

Personally, I would say that they are better at it (Greed). That is why they got over a Billion Bucks in the bank.

Speaking of "building your own" this is my viewpoint.

I buy a machine or computer better than what I need at the time, but not the most expensive one available. That way the machines lasts a fair amount of time and is not outdated in just 2 or 3 years.

I started as an air systems technician and know a lot of guys with that frame of mind. They say, hey build your own or do a super modification (boat or aircraft). It is fun. My answer is my purpose these days is to use the craft, to use the machine.
Yes, I might adapt something, and certainly fix things, but it is the use of an item that fascinates me, not the makings of it.

And by the way, I am sometimes the guy that is called upon when my adventuress friends run into a problem with their engines.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by afv011

Same here, I pick and choose my components. I get a much better machine, tailored to my needs, at a lower price than a ready-made one.

Same here. Dear Hubby has built almost all our computes from scratch since just before tape drives came in. We have a Gateway upstairs, but it's just a cheap backup computer we inherited.

Otherwise our desktops are home made and we change out/upgrade parts for holidays and anniversaries. I got a solid state hard drive for part of my Christmas present.

We had an Mac once just to play with, the one that had all the parts in the monitor, and when it burned out there was no way for us to open it and fix it. Just having Apple look at it was going to cost us. We just tore it apart to get out the DVD that was stuck in it (with no DVD reject button on the machine!) and tossed it.

We put the money into upgrading our non-Apple desktops instead of replacing it.

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

We had an Mac once just to play with, the one that had all the parts in the monitor, and when it burned out there was no way for us to open it and fix it. Just having Apple look at it was going to cost us. We just tore it apart to get out the DVD that was stuck in it (with no DVD reject button on the machine!) and tossed it.

There is a way. You just didn't know it. http://www.ifixit.com/

In the end it comes to this: Apple's hardware is tailored to make it work with it's software. It's one package. (Hackintosh requires lotsa tricks to get it to work. And don't even think to upgrade OSx...)

I've tried to find and built a PC similar to a mac mini. It made me realize 2 things:
1) there is no way to custom built a pc with similar power as a mac mini, the size of a mac mini.
2) a custom built pc with similar power as the mac mini would save me only like $200-300. (not counting the OS)

So I just bought the mac mini, and happy with it. You can say I paid 300 dollar for the looks. Fine, it looks great. But I went for compact, silent.

(I did put a SSD in it though. That operation might well be the toughest hardware upgrade I've ever done. And that's with decades of experience in building computers and model kits. Macs aren't for tinkerers. It's for the expert of expert tinkerers)

[David Munch]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

We had an Mac once just to play with, the one that had all the parts in the monitor, and when it burned out there was no way for us to open it and fix it. Just having Apple look at it was going to cost us. We just tore it apart to get out the DVD that was stuck in it (with no DVD reject button on the machine!) and tossed it.

You can't have tried very hard then, as all iMacs are capable of being opened and serviced. Heck, I've done it myself on several iMac models, and I only google for a manual or video on how to do it.

But in any case, with most Apple products you select design over functionality (The Mac Pro being the only current exception).

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

So I just bought the mac mini, and happy with it. You can say I paid 300 dollar for the looks. Fine, it looks great. But I went for compact, silent.

I did the same (and the thought of getting an SSD defeated me, I'll just upgrade the RAM). The thing about it costing more than if you built a PC yourself, with the same specs... think of it like this... thats your labour costs. How many hours would you spend in seeking the exact product you needed, and then how much time to build... and what is your time worth? I decided mine was worth buying a mini instead of trying to create a Hackint0sh.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by David Munch

But in any case, with most Apple products you select design over functionality.

Doesn't sound like the clever choice to make to me. "Yeah, it looks good, but doesn't do half of what it's supposed to. But then again, it looks good!"

[afv011]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

... thats your labour costs.

Depends. If the time you would spend putting up a PC would otherwise be spent watching TV or similar, the labour costs are $0. And at the end of the day, it's more like a Lego thing, you just plug things in with the odd screw to hold the hard drive in place. You can certainly put a PC together in 30 minutes.

[theinfamousj]

Originally Posted by David Munch

You can't have tried very hard then, as all iMacs are capable of being opened and serviced. Heck, I've done it myself on several iMac models, and I only google for a manual or video on how to do it.

Which means that you need an Internet capable device to Google and YouTube. If your mac is/was your only device, you are out of luck.
Non-seamless built computers with visible or intuitively hidden screws - macs don't have these - make it a bit easier to do when access to the Internet has been taken away.

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by afv011

Depends. If the time you would spend putting up a PC would otherwise be spent watching TV or similar, the labour costs are $0. And at the end of the day, it's more like a Lego thing, you just plug things in with the odd screw to hold the hard drive in place. You can certainly put a PC together in 30 minutes.

If you have a) the knowledge and b) the parts (which you have also spent time looking for and purchasing). Neither of those usually applies to Joe average, and thats me. Therefore its easier to buy it done already.

And I remain curious about why it is that non-Apple device users feel compelled to come into an Apple forum to virtually speaking, thumb their noses at Apple users.

We like our gear, and really, it doesnt matter a damn why.

Originally Posted by theinfamousj

Which means that you need an Internet capable device to Google and YouTube. If your mac is/was your only device, you are out of luck.
Non-seamless built computers with visible or intuitively hidden screws - macs don't have these - make it a bit easier to do when access to the Internet has been taken away.

Ever looked at the underside of a Mini? No? Thought not. It has a huge plate which is easy to remove, and which exposes most of the innards. And most mac users I know have more than one device.

The thread has gone way off topic and if I was a mod, I'd close it. I'm not, so I can't. But I wont be back. I'll leave you nose-thumbers to "discuss" amongst yourselves

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by theinfamousj

Which means that you need an Internet capable device to Google and YouTube. If your mac is/was your only device, you are out of luck.
Non-seamless built computers with visible or intuitively hidden screws - macs don't have these - make it a bit easier to do when access to the Internet has been taken away.

If it's a pc which is broken down, and that's your only device, you're out of luck too.

Such a person would to the thing a normal person would do:
1) bring the machine back to the shop and have them look at it.
2) find another way to get online and find info anyway.

Wouldn't matter if it's a PC or Mac. It'd be a good moment for that person to get out into the world of current days though. Only one internet capable device in house... yet can afford a mac

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

In the end it comes to this: Apple's hardware is tailored to make it work with it's software. It's one package.

Unfortunately Apple is completely unpredictable in what hardware they are going to sell.
They have stopped selling the Mac pro in Europe, using some new EU-regulation as a pretext (everyone else manages to comply with it). Now imagine you are running a small business with Apple infrastructure and all of a sudden you can't add/replace a workstation.

The Macbook pro 17" was fairly popular as well and Apple ditched it.

Sorry, I am not going to invest money into software that will run only on computers produced by such a fickle hardware manufacturer.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

I've tried to find and built a PC similar to a mac mini. It made me realize 2 things:
1) there is no way to custom built a pc with similar power as a mac mini, the size of a mac mini.
2) a custom built pc with similar power as the mac mini would save me only like $200-300. (not counting the OS)

So I just bought the mac mini, and happy with it. You can say I paid 300 dollar for the looks. Fine, it looks great. But I went for compact, silent.

Yep. It's darned expensive to build a PC with Mac Mini form factor. Simply put, it's just not possible with off-the-shelf Mini-ITX parts. You can get close but it'll likely cost more than a Mac Mini and still wouldn't be as pretty or small. I know people who bought a Mac Mini to install Windows on because it's cheaper than going custom.

[David Munch]

Originally Posted by afv011

Doesn't sound like the clever choice to make to me. "Yeah, it looks good, but doesn't do half of what it's supposed to. But then again, it looks good!"

Since the functionality out of the box is more than enough for 90% of the users, it makes perfect sense for both Apple and the users.

Originally Posted by theinfamousj

Which means that you need an Internet capable device to Google and YouTube. If your mac is/was your only device, you are out of luck.
Non-seamless built computers with visible or intuitively hidden screws - macs don't have these - make it a bit easier to do when access to the Internet has been taken away.

Then you go to the library.

Originally Posted by CommonReader

Unfortunately Apple is completely unpredictable in what hardware they are going to sell.
They have stopped selling the Mac pro in Europe, using some new EU-regulation as a pretext (everyone else manages to comply with it). Now imagine you are running a small business with Apple infrastructure and all of a sudden you can't add/replace a workstation.

The Macbook pro 17" was fairly popular as well and Apple ditched it.

Apple already stated that a new Mac Pro is coming in 2013, and warned users that it wouldn't be sold after the 1st of March. This is unique since they never announce hardware before release, so they are aware of the problem. In fact, I would be *very* surprised if it isn't launched at their annual developer conference in 3 days. Since you can still get the Mac Pro at some resellers, it still isn't really a problem.

And I'd be surprised if the 17" MBP sold much, since they canned it.

[crashnburn]

Irritating as their products may be when trying to hack with them, they work and work well and smoothly for most people including power geeks...

[afv011]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

And I remain curious about why it is that non-Apple device users feel compelled to come into an Apple forum to virtually speaking, thumb their noses at Apple users.

Anything wrong with freedom of speech?