Confirmed leak! Palm creating another Linux "Palm" OS!

cervezas · 03-29-2006, 09:24 PM

I just had an email exchange with an analyst I know that is close to Palm and has been privy to their plans in the past. He confirmed my conclusion that Palm is hedging their OS bets by making their own Linux successor to the Palm OS.

Just in case my poor little web server gets Slashdotted into a puddle of molten plastic and metal, here's the text of my my latest blog post on the subject:

Quote:

Things are getting interesting at Palm Inc., the makers of the Treo smartphones but not (to date) of the operating systems they run on. First, back in November of 2004, there was a source that reported Palm was "exploring partnerships that could let it use a tailored version of the Linux OS to run on its devices ". There was some credibility because this was the same source that first leaked Palm's plans to release a Windows Mobile Treo--correctly as we now know. Other rumors of Linux devices from Palm flew about for a while, but there was nothing tangible. Then Palm went through a spate of hiring Linux engineers that seemed to start around the time they lost their bidding war to acquire PalmSource. Most recently there has been a job description posted on Palm's website for a Linux handset engineer that specifically mentions development of "a new software platform." Now I've received confirmation from someone who actually knows what's going on.

The analyst I communicated with by email has been privy to Palm's plans in the past, so I asked if he could confirm my conclusion that Palm is writing their own Linux OS. He did, and they are. He asked not to be named, but here's what he said when I asked what he knew:

Quote:

We know about it. Palm has stated on several occasions than 80% of their engineers are software engineers, they are perfectly able to design their own operating system and are working on it. I know they had a prototype of a Linux Treo 650. From my discussions with management my impression is that Palm is hedging their OS risk by developing in-house systems as well as keeping relationships with Palmsource and Microsoft. I know that future Palm models will be coming out with both operating sytems in order to test market reaction.

I asked if he knew whether any of the Treos slated for later this year were expected to run Palm's new Linux-based system. He said they would run Windows and Palm OS Garnet and that the "new operating system will be introduced in 2007 (don’t know if fiscal or calendar)."

So there you have it, folks. It seems that we now have not one but two companies working on a successor to the Palm operating system: PalmSource, the company that Palm spun off in 2003 to continue the development of the Palm OS but which was recently acquired by ACCESS; and Palm Inc. itself, which own's the Palm brand and is therefore the only party that can actually name their platform "Palm OS." It's thought that ACCESS, heavily staked by DoCoMo, will be looking largely to Japan and China for its customers. Meanwhile Palm, dominant in the US smartphone market, has been conspicuously quiet about the announcement of the ACCESS Linux Platform in February. Now we know why.

We don't know anything more about this new OS other than the fact that it has a Linux kernel, but since Palm continues to affirm its strong support for "Palm OS" it's a pretty good bet that the platform will carry forward the renowned Palm OS experience. Since Palm owns the "Palm" brand we can also be pretty sure it will be called "Palm OS," too.

TadW · 03-30-2006, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cervezas

I just had an email exchange with an analyst I know that is close to Palm and has been privy to their plans in the past. He confirmed my conclusion that Palm is hedging their OS bets by making their own Linux successor to the Palm OS.

Wow, David, that's definitely the scoop of the day!! I didn't know that 80% of Palm staff were software engineers. In other words, more than 700 employees are working on Palm software development! Given how little Palm has shown us in regard to software advances to date, I am pretty sure you are right on spot that Palm must have been working on something big as a new OS behind our backs!

surur · 03-30-2006, 05:27 AM

Seems I my timeframe was a bit closer than yours. PalmLinux in 2007 (or 2008)!

Surur

Snappy! · 03-30-2006, 07:20 AM

Hmmm ... I wonder how much of the PalmOS trademarks belong to PalmSource ... would they get into some debacle with ACCESS over it? No? Or maybe they have some secretive cross-partnership deal or something.

Bob Russell · 03-30-2006, 07:26 AM

Actually, not too long ago, PalmOne Inc bought the rights to the name Palm. PalmSource was given a grace period before they had to stop using it. But PalmOS is probably fully available as a name for Palm to use for a new OS if they want to.

And I know I'm harping on it even though there's not much info, but remember the third secret line of business for Palm? Well, it's very possible that the Linux OS work can provide a foundation for future pdas and smartphones, and also the third line of business all at once.

Plus, don't forget that Palm outsources hardware production to third party manufacturers. Treos I think were made by HTC until recently. So they do have to negotiate those vendor and supply issues and create hardware specs, but they don't need the full team of hardware people on staff.

cervezas · 03-30-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

Wow, David, that's definitely the scoop of the day!! I didn't know that 80% of Palm staff were software engineers. In other words, more than 700 employees are working on Palm software development! Given how little Palm has shown us in regard to software advances to date, I am pretty sure you are right on spot that Palm must have been working on something big as a new OS behind our backs!

Right, but keep in mind that building an OS is a huge undertaking and most likely Palm has a partnership or licensing agreement with a commercial Linux vendor that has already done most of the low-level work and even created some kind of application framework. It's a big enough project just for Palm to modify an existing framework to suit its needs.

It is exciting. But also kind of a shame when you think what might have happened if Palm and Palmsource hadn't gone their separate ways, don't you think? It's going to be a very confusing thing for Palm OS developers and users to figure out which platform they go with and deal with the inevitable incompatibilities.

Also take care: when the analyst says he believes Palm is doing this to hedge its OS risk, you should read that as "this may or may not be released depending on circumstances." We don't really know if this platform is their Plan A or their Plan B.

Jimmie Geddes · 03-30-2006, 04:21 PM

David,
I linked to your story at my site and PalmAddict when I read it this morning.

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmad...ughts_on_.html

http://gadgetsonthego.net/2006/03/it...ing-their.html

I sent engadget mobile the news, and they posted it like I was the one who wrote the story.

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/0...-from-scratch/

I emailed Ryan Block once I saw the story, and posted a comment in the comments section to clarify that this is your story, not mine. I just want you to know I fully credited you, as you can see by the above links. I'm hoping engadget mobile changes that story. I want to apologize for this, I told engadget it was your story when I sent them the link this morning. I posted the same on PalmAddict and my site as well.

Jimmie Geddes

Jimmie Geddes · 03-30-2006, 04:29 PM

David,
Ryan just emailed me that he will change the story.

Jimmie Geddes

Jimmie Geddes · 03-30-2006, 04:39 PM

Ryan Block just emailed me with the corrected story:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/0...-from-scratch/

I wanted to take care of this quickly, and apologize for the mixup. I am glad engadget quickly corretced this.

Antoine of MMM · 03-30-2006, 05:09 PM

Good find David. Someone blased me on another forum for suggesting an 3rd OS was around some many months ago, glad to see that I wasn't totally off. Now, moreso that wanting a replacement laptop, I wanna see the PalmLinux that Palm is making. Would be a heck of a nice thing to see, albeit, if they went with it, they would be making a taking a huge bet on their future.

Jimmie Geddes · 03-30-2006, 06:00 PM

Everyone must remember that Palm created the Palm OS that we know and love. I have more faith in them creating a successor to the Palm OS than I do ACCESS. ALP looks nothing like what we're used to. Palm also paid big money for the rights to the Palm name, they can call their OS, Palm OS. I believe Palm is working on their own OS, but also keeping Garnet, Windows Mobile, and a possible ALP device for backup. If anyone is going to make a true successor to Palm OS, it's gonna be the original makers Palm.

Snappy! · 03-30-2006, 09:50 PM

I know this is a stretch and probably will not happen soon if ever. But what's stopping Palm from releasing a Palm device with eink displays? For the most part, the standard Palm OS do not need complex screen refreshes and is pretty optimized right?

So what's stopping them from releasing a Palm eInk? Conflict of interest maybe?

And along this line of divergence, how about a PalmOS based UMPC?

Oh wait, there is already the Tapwave Zodiac which is pretty close to a UMPC form. And it flopped.

Alexander Turcic · 03-31-2006, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snappy!

I know this is a stretch and probably will not happen soon if ever. But what's stopping Palm from releasing a Palm device with eink displays? For the most part, the standard Palm OS do not need complex screen refreshes and is pretty optimized right?

So what's stopping them from releasing a Palm eInk? Conflict of interest maybe?

I think Palm is just redefining itself as a smartphone company, moving away from the multi-functional unconnected PDA (or UMPC). The current problem of E Ink is still its slow refresh rate; imagine you want to browse through your mobile's phone book and it would take 1-2 secs every time you make a page turn. I could imagine this to be very frustrating

Snappy! · 03-31-2006, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander

I think Palm is just redefining itself as a smartphone company, moving away from the multi-functional unconnected PDA (or UMPC). The current problem of E Ink is still its slow refresh rate; imagine you want to browse through your mobile's phone book and it 1-2 secs every time you make a page turn. I could imagine this to be very frustrating

I was thinking more of a dedicated eBook device ... without all the PIM baggage.

... I mean, PIM data is becoming like the digital clock, where you can find it everywhere and they are all not in sync!

Harpgliss · 03-31-2006, 09:53 AM

Hi,

No offense meant but I am getting tired of hearing these rumors without there being something put out.

If they plan to do this, do it but don't leak it and gauge our reaction before following thru.

I know the source that David Beers uses as the basis for the thread is not associated with Palm but the original information came from a source within Palm.

For Palm, and this is how they operate at present is thru trying to tease the consumer by innuendo and it bores me.

They really need to put up or shut up.

Sorry for the rant and great scoop as I see lots of other sites are picking the story up as well.

Great work.

David

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03-30-2006, 05:27 AM	#3
surur Enthusiast Posts: 30 Karma: 2258 Join Date: Jun 2005 Device: Loox 720	Seems I my timeframe was a bit closer than yours. PalmLinux in 2007 (or 2008)! Surur

03-30-2006, 07:20 AM	#4
Snappy! Addict Posts: 260 Karma: 4256 Join Date: Feb 2006 Device: SHARP Zaurus C1000	Hmmm ... I wonder how much of the PalmOS trademarks belong to PalmSource ... would they get into some debacle with ACCESS over it? No? Or maybe they have some secretive cross-partnership deal or something.

03-30-2006, 07:26 AM	#5
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Actually, not too long ago, PalmOne Inc bought the rights to the name Palm. PalmSource was given a grace period before they had to stop using it. But PalmOS is probably fully available as a name for Palm to use for a new OS if they want to. And I know I'm harping on it even though there's not much info, but remember the third secret line of business for Palm? Well, it's very possible that the Linux OS work can provide a foundation for future pdas and smartphones, and also the third line of business all at once. Plus, don't forget that Palm outsources hardware production to third party manufacturers. Treos I think were made by HTC until recently. So they do have to negotiate those vendor and supply issues and create hardware specs, but they don't need the full team of hardware people on staff.

03-30-2006, 04:21 PM	#7
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	David, I linked to your story at my site and PalmAddict when I read it this morning. http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmad...ughts_on_.html http://gadgetsonthego.net/2006/03/it...ing-their.html I sent engadget mobile the news, and they posted it like I was the one who wrote the story. http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/0...-from-scratch/ I emailed Ryan Block once I saw the story, and posted a comment in the comments section to clarify that this is your story, not mine. I just want you to know I fully credited you, as you can see by the above links. I'm hoping engadget mobile changes that story. I want to apologize for this, I told engadget it was your story when I sent them the link this morning. I posted the same on PalmAddict and my site as well. Jimmie Geddes

03-30-2006, 04:29 PM	#8
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	David, Ryan just emailed me that he will change the story. Jimmie Geddes

03-30-2006, 04:39 PM	#9
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	Ryan Block just emailed me with the corrected story: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/0...-from-scratch/ I wanted to take care of this quickly, and apologize for the mixup. I am glad engadget quickly corretced this.

03-30-2006, 05:09 PM	#10
Antoine of MMM Mobile Ministry Magazine Posts: 119 Karma: 4507 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Device: Nokia N75/N800 Internet Tablet	Good find David. Someone blased me on another forum for suggesting an 3rd OS was around some many months ago, glad to see that I wasn't totally off. Now, moreso that wanting a replacement laptop, I wanna see the PalmLinux that Palm is making. Would be a heck of a nice thing to see, albeit, if they went with it, they would be making a taking a huge bet on their future.

03-30-2006, 06:00 PM	#11
Jimmie Geddes Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Sep 2005 Device: Sprint Treo 650	Everyone must remember that Palm created the Palm OS that we know and love. I have more faith in them creating a successor to the Palm OS than I do ACCESS. ALP looks nothing like what we're used to. Palm also paid big money for the rights to the Palm name, they can call their OS, Palm OS. I believe Palm is working on their own OS, but also keeping Garnet, Windows Mobile, and a possible ALP device for backup. If anyone is going to make a true successor to Palm OS, it's gonna be the original makers Palm.

03-30-2006, 09:50 PM	#12
Snappy! Addict Posts: 260 Karma: 4256 Join Date: Feb 2006 Device: SHARP Zaurus C1000	I know this is a stretch and probably will not happen soon if ever. But what's stopping Palm from releasing a Palm device with eink displays? For the most part, the standard Palm OS do not need complex screen refreshes and is pretty optimized right? So what's stopping them from releasing a Palm eInk? Conflict of interest maybe? And along this line of divergence, how about a PalmOS based UMPC? Oh wait, there is already the Tapwave Zodiac which is pretty close to a UMPC form. And it flopped.

03-31-2006, 09:53 AM	#15
Harpgliss Member Retired Posts: 149 Karma: 6287 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New Hudson,Mi. Device: TH55	Hi, No offense meant but I am getting tired of hearing these rumors without there being something put out. If they plan to do this, do it but don't leak it and gauge our reaction before following thru. I know the source that David Beers uses as the basis for the thread is not associated with Palm but the original information came from a source within Palm. For Palm, and this is how they operate at present is thru trying to tease the consumer by innuendo and it bores me. They really need to put up or shut up. Sorry for the rant and great scoop as I see lots of other sites are picking the story up as well. Great work. David

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