Anonymous and the Sadism of Social Engineering - Page 2

ehennigan · 01-31-2012, 08:57 PM

Their MO's & confusing reputation(s) might be described as "Cyber Robin Hood & His Band of Hacking Thieves". Hmmmm ... what a great title for a book!! Any takers??

Hellmark · 01-31-2012, 09:02 PM

The thing about Anonymous is that they're legion. They are many. No one is in control. Plus, with some of their activities, it can easily be done by just a handful of people. One guy with a botnet can take down a few sites, and everyone who has ever taken part in anything Anonymous has done gets painted by that brush.

tubemonkey · 01-31-2012, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

One guy with a botnet can take down a few sites, and everyone who has ever taken part in anything Anonymous has done gets painted by that brush.

As they should be.

Giggleton · 02-01-2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

As they should be.

Mr TubeMonkey, are you in favor of an end to anonymity on the network?

Prestidigitweeze · 02-01-2012, 04:42 AM

I think he's advocating the reverse: That an organization be tainted by actions in the name of said organization by any of its members.

This is especially helpful when members are anonymous (literally) and unaccountable individually. We need to know whom to support, and if we don't know the individuals, then we ought to know what to expect from the larger group.

I personally base a large part of my support on ethics. I can't support a group whose members clearly represent it while engaging in acts of cruelty, spite and petty theft for personal gain. To support them is not only to endorse cruelty and liberation as equivalents but to conflate just causes with unjust means and ends.

Ekaros · 02-01-2012, 05:25 AM

So you can mark whole group by actions of one of their members?

As a whole there is lot of not perfect in Anonymous. Still it doesn't stop one from supporting certain actions they have taken. It's not a movement which one must to take as a whole.

The problem is you just can't look at them in traditional way. They aren't one coherent large group, but individuals behind a mask or anonymity. Black and white thinking doesn't work in real world.

tubemonkey · 02-01-2012, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekaros

So you can mark whole group by actions of one of their members?

Yes; until such time as the misfits are condemned for their actions and punished by the group.

Sil_liS · 02-01-2012, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Nations are immense behemoths erected by vast consensus and brutal manipulation. Anonymous are simply a bunch of people like us.

You are from the US so you may not realize this, but according to Wikipedia there are 17 countries with a population of less than 15000 people. How many is a bunch?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Anonymous has a presence today, but if their actions ceased to fascinate people, they'd fall back into mere criminality and stop trying to impress us by occasionally handing out candy at virtual orphanages.

So it's in the world's best interest to stay fascinated with them.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 02-01-2012, 08:28 AM

They are the masked thieves, terrorists and cattle rustlers that will eventually drive the rest of the world to demand better web security and accountability. Through their misguided actions, order will eventually come to the web. They are sealing their own doom.

Keep it up.

Hellmark · 02-01-2012, 09:34 AM

The thing too is that there is nothing limiting who says they're a member, and being that there is no central body, no way they can really condemn the bad eggs. You can say you're anonymous and DDoS the top 10 websites, and I can say I am anonymous and that your actions are bad. Who will get more notice? My comment would get ignored and the media will go on about the evil Anonymous. Even if everyone stops participating, but one person, that one person, through the use of botnets can continue the reign of terror, and get notice as if there is many.

Anonymity has allowed some Anonymous to do lots of good, but that same anonymity has allowed a handful to do a lot of bad. To be honest, I kinda see Anonymous as two groups, that just happen to have the same name (much like people in society can share names). I see the Guy Fawkes mask wearing Anonymous out doing picketing as different from the Hackers. They sometimes have the same interests, such as scientology, but not always.

The weapon they wield is two edged. It allows them to do good, but it also allows bad to be done with out anyway to tell who is behind what. No way to separate the goodfrom the bad.

MrsJoseph · 02-01-2012, 10:42 AM

I can't condone their actions - because they would be just as happy watching an 11 year old girl kill herself. That saddens me greatly.

That's ridiculous and reminds me - as always - that mob mentality is harmful.

They have great access and tons of knowledge that they could use for something other than harming others.

tubemonkey · 02-01-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

The weapon they wield is two edged. It allows them to do good, but it also allows bad to be done with out anyway to tell who is behind what. No way to separate the goodfrom the bad.

Therefore, the entire group is justifiably tainted and deserving of condemnation.

Sil_liS · 02-01-2012, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I can't condone their actions - because they would be just as happy watching an 11 year old girl kill herself. That saddens me greatly.

What makes you think that they would?

MrsJoseph · 02-01-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

What makes you think that they would?

Quote:

Sometimes the jokes went to harsh extremes, and that hasn't changed. In 2010, an 11-year-old girl nicknamed Jessi Slaughter issued a YouTube threat against "haters" who had started an Internet rumor about her. She said she'd "pop a Glock in your mouth and make a brain slushy." As a Gawker account put it, "Ha ha."

Unfortunately, as Gawker went on to note, the response went beyond "ha ha." People found her real name, address and phone number. They passed the information around. A bomb squad showed up to her school after a suspicious package arrived in the mail. Encyclopaedia Dramatica, a website that chronicles the lore and pranks of the Internet in the fuck-you-it's-funny style of the Internet itself, published an item on how to troll her. "Tell her dad that we are going to beat her up." "Tell her to kill herself."

Jessi responded with another video. In this one, she was seen crying and whimpering while her father crouched in the background, screaming at the camera and shaking his fist. His awkward threats would become memes. A year later, he was arrested for punching Jessi in the mouth, and six months after that, she posted a video saying she'd been institutionalized and was living in foster care. Last summer, her mother wrote on Facebook that the father had died of a massive heart attack. Someone posted a screenshot of the message on FunnyJunk.com.

That's enough for me.

HarryT · 02-01-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

That's enough for me.

Hang on a minute. If I read this correctly, this girl publicly threatened to kill someone? That in itself is a serious crime (at least it is where I live). Why did the police take no action against her at that point?

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01-31-2012, 08:57 PM	#16
ehennigan Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Wisconsin Device: none	Their MO's & confusing reputation(s) might be described as "Cyber Robin Hood & His Band of Hacking Thieves". Hmmmm ... what a great title for a book!! Any takers??

01-31-2012, 09:02 PM	#17
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	The thing about Anonymous is that they're legion. They are many. No one is in control. Plus, with some of their activities, it can easily be done by just a handful of people. One guy with a botnet can take down a few sites, and everyone who has ever taken part in anything Anonymous has done gets painted by that brush.

02-01-2012, 04:42 AM	#20
Prestidigitweeze Fledgling Demagogue Posts: 2,384 Karma: 31132263 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: White Plains Device: Clara HD; Oasis 2; Aura HD; iPad Air; PRS-350; Galaxy S7.	I think he's advocating the reverse: That an organization be tainted by actions in the name of said organization by any of its members. This is especially helpful when members are anonymous (literally) and unaccountable individually. We need to know whom to support, and if we don't know the individuals, then we ought to know what to expect from the larger group. I personally base a large part of my support on ethics. I can't support a group whose members clearly represent it while engaging in acts of cruelty, spite and petty theft for personal gain. To support them is not only to endorse cruelty and liberation as equivalents but to conflate just causes with unjust means and ends.

02-01-2012, 05:25 AM	#21
Ekaros Illiterate newbie Posts: 661 Karma: 1702090 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Finland Device: Sony PRS-T1	So you can mark whole group by actions of one of their members? As a whole there is lot of not perfect in Anonymous. Still it doesn't stop one from supporting certain actions they have taken. It's not a movement which one must to take as a whole. The problem is you just can't look at them in traditional way. They aren't one coherent large group, but individuals behind a mask or anonymity. Black and white thinking doesn't work in real world.

02-01-2012, 08:28 AM	#24
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	They are the masked thieves, terrorists and cattle rustlers that will eventually drive the rest of the world to demand better web security and accountability. Through their misguided actions, order will eventually come to the web. They are sealing their own doom. Keep it up.

02-01-2012, 09:34 AM	#25
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,549 Karma: 3799999 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: O'Fallon, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3	The thing too is that there is nothing limiting who says they're a member, and being that there is no central body, no way they can really condemn the bad eggs. You can say you're anonymous and DDoS the top 10 websites, and I can say I am anonymous and that your actions are bad. Who will get more notice? My comment would get ignored and the media will go on about the evil Anonymous. Even if everyone stops participating, but one person, that one person, through the use of botnets can continue the reign of terror, and get notice as if there is many. Anonymity has allowed some Anonymous to do lots of good, but that same anonymity has allowed a handful to do a lot of bad. To be honest, I kinda see Anonymous as two groups, that just happen to have the same name (much like people in society can share names). I see the Guy Fawkes mask wearing Anonymous out doing picketing as different from the Hackers. They sometimes have the same interests, such as scientology, but not always. The weapon they wield is two edged. It allows them to do good, but it also allows bad to be done with out anyway to tell who is behind what. No way to separate the goodfrom the bad.

02-01-2012, 10:42 AM	#26
MrsJoseph Loves Ellipsis... Posts: 1,554 Karma: 7899232 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Washington, DC Device: Kobo Wifi (broken), nook STR (returned), Kobo Touch, Sony T1	I can't condone their actions - because they would be just as happy watching an 11 year old girl kill herself. That saddens me greatly. That's ridiculous and reminds me - as always - that mob mentality is harmful. They have great access and tons of knowledge that they could use for something other than harming others.

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