Seriously thoughtful Science Literacy in the U.S.A.

[Sparrow]

I think evolution has a profound impact on our understanding of what we humans are.
The ramifications are still being worked through imho.

[Laz116]

Originally Posted by cmdahler

Truly, and that faculty of critical thinking is what leads me to the opinion that there are Useful Sciences and Useless Sciences. That's not to say I'm arguing that the Useless Sciences are wrong, just that they essentially contribute nothing to truly important human progress. Knowledge for knowledge's sake is fine when you don't have truly pressing societal problems to solve, but it's like eating out every day when you can afford to pay your credit card bill. People in school can gain all the benefits of scientific, critical thinking and still focus on the things that really matter. Wasting time on archaeology, for example, is just that: a waste. That person with all that capacity for deductive reasoning and years of education could be doing something that really benefits society, like finding a cure for my daughter's diabetes instead of wasting their life digging useless holes in the ground so tourists will have some pottery shard to look at in a museum.

Gaining knowledge is never useless - even if the knowledge doesn't seem to have any use at the present.

[DixieGal]

Getting back to the original post, it started me thinking about my inbred brain-dead in-laws. Throw 10 of them into a lake and you might barely have a combined educational level for 1 of them to graduate high school.

BUT... In the past few years since satellite TV made it out to the piney woods, get-togethers have changed. I overheard a pothead step nephew cousin talking about these strings that are really universes. They watch and discuss the space series, such as The Planet and The Universe. I doubt any of them could understand a chart about recessive or dominant genes, for instance, but they completely understand about evolutionary adaption to fill an ecelogic niche.

So they are well indoctrinated with popular science and have a pretty good grasp of things from watching documentary TV. So from my own observations, I would not consider this as failing to educate them about science.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Getting back to the original post, it started me thinking about my inbred brain-dead in-laws. Throw 10 of them into a lake and you might barely have a combined educational level for 1 of them to graduate high school.

BUT... In the past few years since satellite TV made it out to the piney woods, get-togethers have changed. I overheard a pothead step nephew cousin talking about these strings that are really universes. They watch and discuss the space series, such as The Planet and The Universe. I doubt any of them could understand a chart about recessive or dominant genes, for instance, but they completely understand about evolutionary adaption to fill an ecelogic niche.

So they are well indoctrinated with popular science and have a pretty good grasp of things from watching documentary TV. So from my own observations, I would not consider this as failing to educate them about science.

Very cool Dixie! What little TV I watch are those sorts of shows - National Geographic, Nature, Science, etc...

[ardeegee]

Back to the point of nothing in biology making sense except in the light of evolution, a recent survey has shown that as much as 8 percent of the human genome is made up of endogenous viruses. The existence of endogenous viruses has been known for a long time (with viral genes providing proteins key to survival, including surface proteins that are key to the functioning of the placenta) but-- to put that number in perspective-- the percentage of the human genome that actually codes for protein is around 2% or less-- the viruses that have accumulated over evolutionary history take up 4 times as much DNA as the DNA that actually builds us!

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...-schizophrenia

http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=1466

There is no hope of understanding and curing diseases without studying and understanding (as well as is possible) evolution-- especially when most of our antibiotics that were once considered "wonder drugs" are quickly becoming useless as their targets evolve resistance.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

This reminds me of a conversation between Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson (I am paraphrasing from memory) in which Watson is appalled at Holmes' ignorance of seemingly basic facts - while knowing exactly how many steps were in the staircase at Baker Street, types of cigar ash, etc. Holmes compared the human brain to a lumber room (attic) and explained there was only a finite amount of space to store knowledge - so he chose to be very selective as to what he remembered/memorized/learned.

That conversation appeared in the very first Sherlock Holmes novel (A Study in Scarlet), and may go a long way in helping explain why it was so easy for Arthur Conan Doyle to believe in fairies and be so easily deceived by photos such as these:

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

The country seems to be functioning, so that information must not be that important.

If by not important you mean it's OK for us to lose our competitive edge in science and technology, then you're right.

"As other countries create the learning centers and jobs to hang on to their best and brightest, the United States is losing a dependable pipeline of talent. Moreover, we are doing remarkably little to educate and train a next generation of scientists and engineers."
—Kathryn Wallace

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspi...icle24076.html

(I can't believe I'm quoting Reader's Digest!)

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by cmdahler

I have a degree in physics, but the older I get, the less I care about things like evolution and cosmology. These branches of human learning have nothing to do with bettering society or improving anyone's life, so I rather suspect that the ones decrying the sad state of these useless fields of learning are mainly the ones who benefit from them: if enough people don't care, then precious funding to keep a lot of pointless archeology projects might get pulled, and a lot of archeologists might have to actually go out and get a real job. Perish the thought. Knowledge for knowledge's sake is a laudable goal, but only when all the other serious needs of society are taken care of. Otherwise, it's like sitting around reading a book when you have bills you can't pay because you haven't gone to work yet today. And even with all bills paid, in the end, who really honestly gives a flying rat's behind how many people understand evolution or cosmology?

A basic knowledge of biology and cosmology is essential to the betterment of society. Without them, and without a grounding in how science works, we open ourselves up to any charlatan who has beachfront property in Arizona to sell us. It allows us to be made into chumps by political schemers who play off our gullibility and superstitions fears. And archeology? One of of the most basic tools of history? If we don't understand our origins, how can we ever hope to understand our destiny?

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Getting back to the original post, it started me thinking about my inbred brain-dead in-laws. Throw 10 of them into a lake and you might barely have a combined educational level for 1 of them to graduate high school.

BUT... In the past few years since satellite TV made it out to the piney woods, get-togethers have changed. I overheard a pothead step nephew cousin talking about these strings that are really universes. ...

Hey, friend!

Do any of your pothead relatives or brain-dead in-laws ever surf the web? If so, I imagine Christmas at your house must be a riot!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Getting back to the original post, it started me thinking about my inbred brain-dead in-laws. Throw 10 of them into a lake and you might barely have a combined educational level for 1 of them to graduate high school.

BUT... In the past few years since satellite TV made it out to the piney woods, get-togethers have changed. I overheard a pothead step nephew cousin talking about these strings that are really universes. They watch and discuss the space series, such as The Planet and The Universe. I doubt any of them could understand a chart about recessive or dominant genes, for instance, but they completely understand about evolutionary adaption to fill an ecelogic niche.

So they are well indoctrinated with popular science and have a pretty good grasp of things from watching documentary TV. So from my own observations, I would not consider this as failing to educate them about science.

It's not a bad point... but it wasn't the education system that educated them in that case... it was an entertainment TV side-effect. It's not a bad argument for rebuilding the education system to take full advantage of multimedia, though.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

It's not a bad point... but it wasn't the education system that educated them in that case... it was an entertainment TV side-effect. It's not a bad argument for rebuilding the education system to take full advantage of multimedia, though.

I got most of my basic science education through media and outside reading rather than through the classes. One anecdote I remember: when I was in my early school years it was during the time results were first coming in from the Voyager probes, so the information in the text books being used to teach about the solar system were already outdated. The teacher I had at that time (some time between around 3rd and 6th grade) would ask me a question (such as how many moons Jupiter was known to have) and if my answer disagreed with the answer that was printed in her teacher's edition textbook, would mark out the textbook answer and put in mine.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

... if my answer disagreed with the answer that was printed in her teacher's edition textbook, would mark out the textbook answer and put in mine.

I bet the other kids loved you for that

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

It's not a bad argument for rebuilding the education system to take full advantage of multimedia, though.

Agreed, with all different ways they are finding that people learn there is no reason not to take advantage of as many different methods of imparting that knowledge as possible and make them all available to students.

[GlennD]

I have fond memories of watching Cosmos as a child; Carl Sagan is one of my favorite science teachers.

I think we need to move out of the mindset that school is for learning and home is for entertainment. Once they get out of the Blue's Clues/Sesame Street stage, they don't want to risk accidentally learning something from the TV. I've got kids in kindergarten through ninth grade, and they tend to have zero interest while at home in anything that they might learn from. (Yes, that's their parents' problem. Working on it. )

[WT Sharpe]

Will it take another Sputnik to shake the U.S. out of its current complacency?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Will it take another Sputnik to shake the U.S. out of its current complacency?

who knows? this new non space position is extremely disturbing. I bet JFK is rolling in his grave!