Engst to Pogue: E-Book piracy not a given

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by astra

Guys, I think Steve Jordan means that every edition of a book you buy from his site has some sort of mark that if you share the book over the Internet it can be tracked down to the initial owner the copy (something like...when you buy lrf file, it has an embeded numner 017, next lrf has a number 018 etc., if you know where to look for the number when you open the file you can find it)

I agree with that type of DRM.

P.S. I could be totally wrong in assuming what type of DRM he is taling about

Survey says:

Blaat!

Oh, I'm sorry, but that was a good guess, and a type of DRM I wouldn't have a problem with, either. Thing is, though, the likely result in suing the one person who sent out your files probably wouldn't be worth the effort (unless I was the MPAA, and could convince a judge to award me the cost of a house in damages).

Everybody give up?

My DRM system, bought off-the-shelf, creates an identification code for the finished transaction... not the book itself... in such a way that the buyer can only download the book(s) they purchased, and no others, for a limited time, based on that code. You can't access the folder holding the e-books without that code, so someone who hasn't bought a book can't get into the folder and download anything.

Technically (for rlauzon), this is still DRM... it is still a form of security. Specifically, it manages your right to download the e-book you bought, and no others. It controls nothing else about the use of your e-book. Once you have your book, it's out of my hands. It doesn't prevent a purchaser from sending copies of their book to their senior class, converting it to other formats, or putting their book on the darknet. It just keeps out non-purchasers, that's pretty much all. It's effective to that extent, and to a purchaser, it's non-invasive and virtually invisible.

So: Am I a naughty boy for fooling you all for all this time? Did my DRM go too far? Do any of you feel slighted, ripped off, or otherwise taken advantage of, by me? I'd like to think not, but clearly that would be for you to decide.

[tirsales]

Nope, that is not DRM - as DRM is a system to limit the usage of a given media. But let's not discuss words here.

I think it is pretty obvious that no one has a problem with that kind of download restriction (though I personally would prefer a user-registration with the ability to redownload a given media, but as I am a grown up, I can handle my own backups )
But .. we all have a problem with normal DRM - that is a DRM that restricts your usage, the devices or the software you read that book on, or similar.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Everybody give up?

Exactally what I thought you meant. Of course, you don't have to belive me. But, I didn't think that was really DRM so I didn't post that this is what you meant.

BOb

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

This is my overriding point: So many of us are taking knee-jerk reactions to the mere phrase DRM... running around in a panic, screaming "Big Brother!" and assuming every ice cube is an iceberg. But over-reacting isn't helping to solve the problem, it's merely clouding the issue.

There are perfectly workable ways to apply security to sales, as other industries have already demonstrated to one extent or another, and as some in our industry are experimenting with now. We should be listening, thinking and trying, not simply nuking everything that has those three horrible letters in it.

[Trenien]

The thing is, your system really isn't DRM.

Despite the words the letters stand for, DRM have always been described (and sold to greedy and technically clueless managers and CEO) as a way to control precisely how their customers could and, more to the point, could not use whatever it was they "bought".

I may look like I'm nitpicking on words, but it's important to make that clear. Whereas your system can only be cracked through general purpose hacking (i.e. breaking into your server), DRM can, in essence, only work if you put a cop behind everyone's shoulder.

I don't know about you, but if we get to that kind of extreme I'd like to at least be spared the cost of the DRM itself...

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Ah, that would be telling. As you've so often said, "Reread my post."

Ya, that's pretty much what I expected from you.

Wikipedia has a really nice overview of DRM at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

You might want to check it out.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by astra

Guys, I think Steve Jordan means that every edition of a book you buy from his site has some sort of mark that if you share the book over the Internet it can be tracked down to the initial owner the copy (something like...when you buy lrf file, it has an embeded numner 017, next lrf has a number 018 etc., if you know where to look for the number when you open the file you can find it)

But that's not DRM since there is no rights management taking place.

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Technically (for rlauzon), this is still DRM... it is still a form of security.

You've confused DRM and security. While they use similar technologies, they really have nothing to do with each other.

And what you are doing is not DRM. Again, I suggest that you read the wikipedia overview and actually learn something about DRM before presuming to talk about it.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

So: Am I a naughty boy for fooling you all for all this time? Did my DRM go too far? Do any of you feel slighted, ripped off, or otherwise taken advantage of, by me? I'd like to think not, but clearly that would be for you to decide.

As others have noted, your security system is not DRM. I've bought books from you...and would not have done so if they had been encumbered with digital rights management.

[wgrimm]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

This is my overriding point: So many of us are taking knee-jerk reactions to the mere phrase DRM... running around in a panic, screaming "Big Brother!" and assuming every ice cube is an iceberg. But over-reacting isn't helping to solve the problem, it's merely clouding the issue.

There are perfectly workable ways to apply security to sales, as other industries have already demonstrated to one extent or another, and as some in our industry are experimenting with now. We should be listening, thinking and trying, not simply nuking everything that has those three horrible letters in it.

Paranoia is an aspect of life in the technological world. Do you own a razr cell? If you're involved in illegal activities, Big Bro might have decided to turn its mike on surreptiously to record your conversations. A few mobsters were just put away using evidence gathered in this fashion. Scary thing is, this misuse of technology can be used against Patriots as well as Criminals- all up to your good old trustworthy government....

Seriously, DRM sucks- because it limits the utility of your purchase. Twenty years after I purchased a hardback book, I can open it up and read it. Ten years after purchasing DRMd "content," I have lost the keys to unlock it, so I have lost value.

How about a law regulating DRM? For each product purchased with DRM, the seller must put a certain percentage of the selling price into an interest-paying escrow account. After 25 years, the seller gets the money back- unless, of course, the DRM is blocking the consumer from retrieving the content.....In which case the buyer receives the proceeds.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by wgrimm

How about a law regulating DRM? For each product purchased with DRM, the seller must put a certain percentage of the selling price into an interest-paying escrow account. After 25 years, the seller gets the money back- unless, of course, the DRM is blocking the consumer from retrieving the content.....In which case the buyer receives the proceeds.

I'd rather have them put the actual content in unencrypted form into escrow, and get a copy of that if they go under. (I believe Canadian law is headed this way, if it hasn't gotten there already.)