E-books worth 5% of Hachette's business

[elcreative]

DMcCunney has hit the nail on the head... this is the real world not an idealistic paradise unfortunately... even published authors have a hard time making a living unless the are in the super sellers group... many authors still have to do other work to actually have a passable standard of living...

[queentess]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The Internet and the available technology have made it relatively easy for people to "publish" their work. Selling it is quite another matter.

You can argue that they do it badly in many cases, but selling books is what publishers do.

Agreed! Publishers, even when they screw things up, still offer valuable services to authors. For example, much of the self-published stuff now is badly in need of an editor with an army of red pens. A world where everything is self-published sounds like my worst nightmare.

[ProfCrash]

The Publishers are paying attention to the independent market. There are independent authors whose books have done well enough that they have been picked up by a Publisher. I doubt that an Indie author will sell one million books on their own but I would not be surprised to see the Publishing Houses picking up the more successful Indie authors.

I have no idea how they define success, I would guess units sold, the authors ability to self promote, and the type of work that they write all come into play.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by Ankh

That, I am afraid, is not so clear to me.

I can see the trend on Mobile Read, but I am definitely not sure that the same applies to the population in general. The previous generation of eInk devices, barring physical damage, is still perfectly usable for reading.

I agree. I suspect that most of the people that are upgrading today are passing their old ereaders on to others in their family or selling them used. We're not at the market penetration level where nobody wants the old technology.

It would be great to see data on the dedicated e-ink device sales compared to the ebook sale growth over time. I suspect there was a large gap that developed around April 2010. Unfortunately Amazon would be the best source for that data and they're keeping it to themselves.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by queentess

Agreed! Publishers, even when they screw things up, still offer valuable services to authors. For example, much of the self-published stuff now is badly in need of an editor with an army of red pens. A world where everything is self-published sounds like my worst nightmare.

Publishers are filters. Because they want to sell books, they have an incentive to pick work they think they can sell, and work with the author to make it as good as possible before offering it for sale. The most important service they may perform be rejecting works that should never see the light of day.

Every publisher has the "slush pile" - manuscripts submitted by hopeful new writers. The vast majority is appallingly bad, and reading slush is the least favorite part of an editor's job. Many publishers now only accept submissions from recognized agents to reduce the amount of unsuitable work they have to wade through. The fact that it comes from an agent isn't a guarantee they'll think it salable, but it at least means it won't be actively painful to read.

With the ease of self-publication, the Internet is now the world's largest slush pile, and readers looking for decent work must endure what editors are all heartily sick of for good reason.

I have far better things to do with my time. There is probably good stuff out there in self-published land, but I can't be bothered to go and look. There's more actual published work that I want to read than I have time for.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by elcreative

DMcCunney has hit the nail on the head... this is the real world not an idealistic paradise unfortunately... even published authors have a hard time making a living unless the are in the super sellers group... many authors still have to do other work to actually have a passable standard of living...

I know a number of selling, published authors. I can think of one, offhand, doing it full time. (But she does freelance editing and provides book doctor services, so writing isn't her entire living, just the majority of it.)

A couple of others have spouses working regular day jobs, so writing isn't their sole support.

The rest all have full or part time jobs and write on the side.

This is the normal state. Only a fraction of a percent of those who get professionally published achieve best seller status and can make a living solely through writing.
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Dennis

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Publishers are filters. Because they want to sell books, they have an incentive to pick work they think they can sell, and work with the author to make it as good as possible before offering it for sale. The most important service they may perform be rejecting works that should never see the light of day.

Every publisher has the "slush pile" - manuscripts submitted by hopeful new writers. The vast majority is appallingly bad, and reading slush is the least favorite part of an editor's job. Many publishers now only accept submissions from recognized agents to reduce the amount of unsuitable work they have to wade through. The fact that it comes from an agent isn't a guarantee they'll think it salable, but it at least means it won't be actively painful to read.

With the ease of self-publication, the Internet is now the world's largest slush pile, and readers looking for decent work must endure what editors are all heartily sick of for good reason.

I have far better things to do with my time. There is probably good stuff out there in self-published land, but I can't be bothered to go and look. There's more actual published work that I want to read than I have time for.
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Dennis

Re: J. K. Rowling

Thanks for the insight into the publisher's viewpoint. Fits well with the pricing arguments of the agency cartel...

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I have far better things to do with my time. There is probably good stuff out there in self-published land, but I can't be bothered to go and look. There's more actual published work that I want to read than I have time for.
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Dennis

+1

Lee

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

With the ease of self-publication, the Internet is now the world's largest slush pile, and readers looking for decent work must endure what editors are all heartily sick of for good reason.

I have far better things to do with my time. There is probably good stuff out there in self-published land, but I can't be bothered to go and look. There's more actual published work that I want to read than I have time for.
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Dennis

To me, that's pretty much like saying, "I'm going to always eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell, because I can't be bothered to try places that might be better but might be worse. So instead I'll choose to eat something that is flavorless and dull because I know what to expect."

Or listening to the big musical acts that music companies manufacture. Which I guess right now is Justin Bieber.

What the big publishers push really is no different than their music or culinary counterparts. It might be sellable, but that has little correlation to quality.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

To me, that's pretty much like saying, "I'm going to always eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell, because I can't be bothered to try places that might be better but might be worse. So instead I'll choose to eat something that is flavorless and dull because I know what to expect."

To me it is like always eating at good restaurants because you do not want to eat at McDonalds or similar places on the chance that they actually make interesting and tasty food.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

To me, that's pretty much like saying, "I'm going to always eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell, because I can't be bothered to try places that might be better but might be worse. So instead I'll choose to eat something that is flavorless and dull because I know what to expect."

I see.... So, let's say you went to the world's largest food mall, filled with food stands as far as the eye could see.

All of the small one-person booths looks unclean, unkempt, unappetizing and unprofessional. The food you try at each one is less savory than the last. (How many will you try before giving up on them?)

In the middle are a series of professional stands with multiple chefs and with names you recognize. Is it such a horrible thing to gravitate towards them?

If you choose to wade through the waves of low-quality unedited material -- written by people who don't bother to read in the first place -- to find that one diamond in the rough, that's your choice. But I for one have neither the inclination or the time.

And let's not forget, there is more to new writing than fiction. If you're going to put out a non-fiction book, you're almost certainly going to need resources that extend far beyond what is available to the average person.

Originally Posted by JeremyR

What the big publishers push really is no different than their music or culinary counterparts. It might be sellable, but that has little correlation to quality.

So, which self-published musicians are putting out truly amazing music these days?

And let's not mix up "indie" with "self-published" in this analysis. There are small publishers that are equivalent to indie music labels.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

To me, that's pretty much like saying, "I'm going to always eat at McDonald's or Taco Bell, because I can't be bothered to try places that might be better but might be worse. So instead I'll choose to eat something that is flavorless and dull because I know what to expect."

Or listening to the big musical acts that music companies manufacture. Which I guess right now is Justin Bieber.

What the big publishers push really is no different than their music or culinary counterparts. It might be sellable, but that has little correlation to quality.

Sellable has a correlation to quality: something sellable should at least be readable. That doesn't mean it will be something I think is good or will like, but it will have at least jumped the first hurdle. And big publishers are in turn composed of specialized imprints, so there's a lot more available than the bestseller of the moment. The bestseller may be what they market, because that's where the make the most money, but it's not all they sell.

Once something has been traditionally published, further filtering before purchase is possible. One is genre: my usual fiction reading is SF/fantasy, with some mysteries and the occasional techno-thriller. Another is who published it. I have a good idea what folks like Baen and Tor offer, and give preference because of that. (Half the time, I probably know the editor who bought the book.) Next comes reviews, which at least give me an idea of whether the book is the sort of thing I'm interested in. Last is personal recommendations from people who have read the books.

And to use your analogy, it's a lot closer to eating at class restaurants and places that have stars in the Michelin guide, because I know the quality is high. I may not like all the dishes on the menu, but I can assume they will be well prepared.

I'm sure there's worthy stuff self-published, but right now, the Internet is the world's largest slush pile. I have no interest in reading slush, or in spending the time required to pan for the occasional nugget of literary gold in the mountains of gravel.

I want to spend my time reading, not looking for stuff to read when it's a search for the needle in the proverbial haystack.

I'm sure the occasional self-published writer will be extraordinarily lucky and break out to a wider audience, and may even be someone writing what I like to read. If so, I can play catchup.

If you can satisfy your reading needs with self-published work, enjoy. I can't, and don't feel like trying.
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Dennis

[elcreative]

DMcCunney... Once again, a palpable hit of the nail right on the head...

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

And let's not forget, there is more to new writing than fiction. If you're going to put out a non-fiction book, you're almost certainly going to need resources that extend far beyond what is available to the average person.

Yes.

I read a fair bit of non-fiction, and the quality demands are even higher.

As one example, a book on my shelves is David McCullough's The Path Between the Seas, a history of the Panama Canal. It won the National Book Award for History, the Francis Parkman Award, the Cornelius Ryan Award, and the Samuel Elliot Morrison award. It was the author's full time job for a couple of years.

This is not the sort of thing that will be self-published.

As another, I have an assortment of O'Reilly's computer books. They are the first place I look for such things, as I know from experience they will be clear, accurate, well edited, and well produced.

This is also not the sort of thing that will be self -published.

They require publishers with the resources to do it properly, including making sure the facts are accurate, making sure the book is well produced, and making sure the author has a roof over her head, clothes on her back, and food on her table while the book is being written.
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Dennis

[TheSFReader]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Because they want to sell books, they have an incentive to pick work they think they can sell, and work with the author to make it as good as possible before offering it for sale. The most important service they may perform be rejecting works that should never see the light of day.

Unfortunately, that may well be "transformed" by some publishers to
"...they have [... ]and work with the author to make it as Sellable as possible before offering it for sale. "

My take is : The most important service they may perform would be stop creating works that should never see the light of day.
Some publishers KNOW that books with sexy witches and vampires will SELL, with the consequence that our bookshops are stuffed up with sexy vampires and witches, to the detriment of less sellable books ...

Mac Donalds is out there because it "sells", no matter the quality (except basic hygiene of course): for them it's the PROFIT that counts !

In the meantime, some other publishers DO their work, and "Create" real value, Quality Books, take real risks. THEY deserve their piece of cake, and I guess "self-publishing" authors WILL find these out when needed.