Time for a Self-Pub Writers' Guild?

[Andy Farman]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I'd note that with regard to formatting, anyway, this already exists: http://qed.digitalbookworld.com/

Now, Joshua used to offer it as an included part of his formatting at eBA. Since Firebrand bought him, I don't see it on his site any longer, but I don't know if that's coincidental, or..? Anyway, we would have cheerfully participated in this, but it's $125/book, for freak's sake. Obviously, because JT was affiliated with them, he was getting (or giving?) the QED to his books for nada, or for such a greatly-reduced price that he could. (This isn't to be taken as any slight toward JT, or any implication of anything wrong, etc., but what bookmaker can pay $125 out of their fees per book, really?) But obviously, we can't. I mean...how do you do a $200 or less book and pay DBW $125 just to review it?

I'd be thrilled to see an affordable "Guild" that would have some type of approval on well-written or at least, edited books. Proofread, formatted. I'd be happy to help support something like this, within my limits. But you have to beware the power-hungry. I mean...what you're discussing is a bit like an exclusive HOA (Homeowner's Association) or non-profit volunteer organization, and this type of thing can get very ugly very fast, in my experience. My experience in this is pretty substantial, and I have yet to see one not go sideways due to abusers of power. FWIW.

Hitch

You do not need Absolute power to corrupt, just a sniff of it will do the job for some people.

For a second I thought there was a really good story in this, but then I remembered George Orwell already wrote it

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Andy Farman

You do not need Absolute power to corrupt, just a sniff of it will do the job for some people.

For a second I thought there was a really good story in this, but then I remembered George Orwell already wrote it

LOL,

Or, as Frank Herbert said, "power attracts the corruptible." ;-)

Hitch

[teh603]

Originally Posted by Andy Farman

Three years between failed submissions is an awfully long time by the way. After all is said and done the Guild mark should, in my humble opinion, only guarantee that the book has been proofed for punctuation, grammar, typos, and to a limited extent that any requirement to suspend reality is minimal. It shouldn't aim to be a filter for potential best sellers. Remember that Harry Potter was rescued from a selectors bin.

Originally Posted by crich70

There would also (I would think) need to be a procedure to follow if someone had a grievance against another member of the guild. And maybe a procedure to appeal if someone is probationary or rejected in order to not seem too strict. Otherwise someone might raise the claim of elitism or something.

Three years was a number I pulled off the top of my head. Numbers can be adjusted.

On the idea of the appeal process, one of the things that came to mind was timing it so when someone got another chance to apply, they'd have had a complete turnover in the board of evaluators, so they wouldn't be facing the same people. You can only serve one term of a certain number of years and then have to wait a longer period before you can serve another. So one board might be overly elitist, while another the opposite.

[QuantumIguana]

It seems to be like paying for reviews, and if the review thinks the book is good, you get to put the group's symbol of quality on your book. There would be a few hurdles. One, readers have to know and understand what that symbol means. The reviews would have to be impartial, or the value would be lost. Every author that is turned away is lost revenue for the guild, and there would be incentive to award the symbol to undeserving books. It would be necessary to resist this pressure.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

. One, readers have to know and understand what that symbol means.

It seems to me that would be a PR problem. Someone with some skill in PR would have to be either in the guild or hired to promote it in some way so that word got out about the symbol and what it means.

[morriss003]

My advice is to start small. Several people have noted potential problems. No matter how this evolves, someone will have to do some work. Volunteers are notoriously eager until work has to be performed. But I like the idea.

[crich70]

Another thing that occurred to me is that someone will have to design the symbol and make sure it doesn't violate anyone else's copyright. There are a lot of trademarked symbols out there now days.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by morriss003

My advice is to start small. Several people have noted potential problems. No matter how this evolves, someone will have to do some work. Volunteers are notoriously eager until work has to be performed. But I like the idea.

You used that four letter work ending in 'k'!

[Alex Bleach]

Interesting topic. One problem with guilds is that they can sometimes make it very difficult for a person to get his product out there. Acting guild Equity have prevented many films from being completed on trivial grounds.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Alex Bleach

Interesting topic. One problem with guilds is that they can sometimes make it very difficult for a person to get his product out there. Acting guild Equity have prevented many films from being completed on trivial grounds.

Equity handles stage actors. SAG/AFTRA handles film and TV actors. It's possible that an actor doing both stage and screen could have Equity cause a film delay but I'd think it's rare.

[Alex Bleach]

Originally Posted by ApK

Equity handles stage actors. SAG/AFTRA handles film and TV actors. It's possible that an actor doing both stage and screen could have Equity cause a film delay but I'd think it's rare.

Thanks for the info. I was reading about it in Ken Russell's autobiography, given that the book was written largely in the late 80s and he directed screen and theatre - I think I got the wrong end of the stick.

[Notjohn]

"So yes, it could be open to vanity self-pub authors if they can get approval from the evaluators."

I am always amused by the vehemence with which Kindle publishers (on the KDP forums) insist on distinguishing between themselves and those pathetic vanity publishers. I can't see the difference, unless it be that the vanity publisher is putting some serious money behind his art, so ought to be more admired rather than less!

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

"So yes, it could be open to vanity self-pub authors if they can get approval from the evaluators."

I am always amused by the vehemence with which Kindle publishers (on the KDP forums) insist on distinguishing between themselves and those pathetic vanity publishers. I can't see the difference, unless it be that the vanity publisher is putting some serious money behind his art, so ought to be more admired rather than less!

On some level I agree with you, as both methods essentially allow anyone to publish almost anything. I think the remaining distinction, however, is that KDP style publishing is truly publication, where the work is put before the public, and it must live or die by public reception. Vanity houses are usually thought of as just printers. Copies are most often sold back to the author to do with what he will...very often given away as a promotional devices or offered only to a small specialized group. So I think KDP style publishing is at least thought of as putting work out believing in its merits, while vanity presses are thought of as merely paying for a pretty package.