The Future of this Forum - Page 6

kovidgoyal · 01-24-2011, 08:10 PM

I'm happy if people just send me txt files with doc updates, I'll take care of merging them into the docs.

Piper_ · 01-24-2011, 08:35 PM

A few random thoughts:

-- If we can, it seems it would be most helpful to keep specific "How do I"s in their own separate posts, so they can be linked to directly as answers to questions.

-- Should we start gathering and deciding (in this thread) upon the most frequently asked (specific) questions here to put together step-by-step answers for?

-- I agree that the focus should be on commonly needed functions. In the "read this first," and perhaps in the ap itself, I'd consider putting in a caveat that the advanced features available for doing uncommon tasks are meant for power users, requiring more user experience or study, and not to count on support.
(You could add a power-users section for those discussions, but with the notice that... well, there's no lifeguard on duty for that end of the pool.

)

-- As for common features and cleanup help, maybe under your

Code:

Conversion:
   1. Using search and replace

section we could keep an updated post at the top with a list of successful regex snippets they can try?

(I found the snippets I needed by digging through several threads and tweaking them a little when needed. Seems it would be good to have them all together.)

-- I wonder if it would be helpful to have a general "Troubleshooting" section just for questions about unexpected behaviors.

kovidgoyal · 01-24-2011, 08:56 PM

We'll definitely have a list of commonly used regexes. I dont think having a separate Troubleshooting area is a good idea as that defeats the purpose of breaking up the rest of the forum into sections.

There si already a list of frequently asked questions here http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html, if peopl ehave any others they want added, feel free to post them (and their answers if possible) and I'll add them to that list.

Piper_ · 01-24-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

We'll definitely have a list of commonly used regexes. I dont think having a separate Troubleshooting area is a good idea as that defeats the purpose of breaking up the rest of the forum into sections.

There si already a list of frequently asked questions here http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html, if peopl ehave any others they want added, feel free to post them (and their answers if possible) and I'll add them to that list.

Ahh, ok. I thought we were going to do both things discussed in the first post. (Yours and GRiker's). And yeah, the troubleshooting section would overlap too much.

So, if I understand correctly, this is we need to do:

Examine the forum sections you laid out in the first post and offer suggestions.
Do the same with the current FAQ and manual..?

As a couple of quickies regarding the latter:

- You could include the link to the FAQ in the left menu bar of the manual.

- In the FAQ, under Where are the book files stored?, you might also add a note that that folder should be left completely alone by the user. *whistling* (I'm one of those who stuck a folder in there to hold cover art.

Shoulda known better, but wasn't thinking.)

MmavisO · 01-24-2011, 09:41 PM

I would like to add my vote to the several above who have mentioned a Geek-to-English vocabulary. It doesn't have to be lengthy, but it does have to assume little-to-none geekspeak. My eyes also glaze over when reading some threads explaining how to do this or that really cool thing. I don't have time/energy/desire to become a python programmer, so mostly I just file it away as it's possible for power users, but not for me--maybe some day. As a result, I know that I only use about 2% of what Calibre can do, and maybe 33% of what I wish I could do, and know is possible. Of course, there is a lot in Calibre that I have no desire or need for, but that only shows how powerful an application it is.

About all I can contribute is a willingness to read any vocabulary pages or other stickies for "non-geek" friendliness. If I can understand it, just about anyone should be able to.

kovidgoyal · 01-24-2011, 10:00 PM

@Piper: Essentially, yes. Forum structure, FAQ and manual suggestions are welcome. I've added the bit about the library folder. It's not easy to add a link to the FAQ into the sidebar (the sidebar is autogenerated)

Piper_ · 01-24-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

@Piper: Essentially, yes. Forum structure, FAQ and manual suggestions are welcome. I've added the bit about the library folder. It's not easy to add a link to the FAQ into the sidebar (the sidebar is autogenerated)

Good deal.

I'll pick up tomorrow, but from what I've looked at tonight, it looks pretty darn good. I see a lot of additions from my first read months ago.

I also want to say that I've always loved how well the info pop-ups within the program dialogs are implemented. It was because of those that I've seldom had the need to look at the manual itself, so far.

garcle · 01-25-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user_none

... Nope. Having dealt with the header and footer regex stuff there isn't even anything close to one regex to rule them all. As far as content goes ebooks are formatted so differently that even books by the same author and in the same series often need different regexes.

Same goes to extracting metadata from file names that there so many different ways people have their books names there is no one regex that works most of the time. Each variance needs a different regex. While it might be nice to include defaults that work against a number of cases, I don't think throwing 20 different regexes at a user and saying pick one would help much. Especially when there is a good change none of them will work.

@User_none If you are going to quote me do me the courtesy of lifting my whole paragraph or at least showing ellipses ... to indicate that there was more.
<geek alert, for geeks only>

Your remarks miss the point I was making completely. I was not talking about "...one regex to rule them all ...", I didn't mention "... throwing 20 different regex's at a user and saying pick one...".
My point was completely misrepresented. I talked about Classes of regex, and I talked about hiding their ugliness completely from the user in the form of a simple plain English menu or other GUI (wizards for example) (maybe with example patterns from real cases, so people can look at it and say oh yeah that's like what I have). Maybe an architecture which included "meta-expressions" which forward scanned the text and determined what kind of expression is required without even the need for an elaborate menu, could be used.

DoctorOhh · 01-25-2011, 03:29 AM

Let me start by saying, I would be glad to help with forum maintenance and sticky development. I am a night owl usually stopping in from between 8pm to 8am Eastern Standard Time (-5 GMT).

I've reviewed the thread and I am all for Read-only stickies that point to or describe solutions. It should save me the trouble of bookmarking so many threads.

I'm not a developer, programmer or regex expert but I know what I know and most of the time I am successful at conveying to others what I know. I also usually recognize what I don't know and stay away or help gather information so when others with the know how arrive they won't have to guess at what is being asked.

The one thing I did notice (of myself) was that after the recipes were sent off to a sub-forum I stopped trying to deal with recipes anymore. So as sub-forums are created, for this to be successful, folks will have to work a little more to keep up with their areas of oversight or interest.

One last thing the manual in a wiki would be nice. When I write documentation, no matter how many times I review it there are at least 3 things I see that need correcting immediately after publishing. A wiki setting would also allow our (I can't remember who) self professed proofreader(s) a chance to use his or her skills easily without jumping through too many hoops.

cybmole · 01-25-2011, 04:08 AM

the stickies must be read only ( for most users) & drastically shortened. currently the number of replies per sticky ranges from are mere 100 , up to 918 - the average would be in the 400 range

faced with that, there's no way I'm going to read 400+ posts in order to maybe find relevant help! I'll do what everyone else seems to do & ask in a new thread - which defeats the object of having stickies

Worldwalker · 01-25-2011, 04:13 AM

cybmole is 100% right regarding the stickies. I've never read most of them, because they're just too huge. If I need to know something I search for it, which doesn't require adhesion. Reference-type stickies should be locked, and updated only by a designated thread keeper (a forum mod) so that the information in them can be found and they don't grow out of control.

chaley · 01-25-2011, 04:27 AM

It has become clear that this forum is moving beyond my interests, so I am bowing out. I wish you all the best of luck.

An exception: I would participate in a subforum dedicated to discussions of calibre's technology, as long as the word "geek" does not appear in its title or description.

Oh, and FWIW: regular expressions were used by linguists many years before they were used by programmers.

Manichean · 01-25-2011, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

cybmole is 100% right regarding the stickies. I've never read most of them, because they're just too huge. If I need to know something I search for it, which doesn't require adhesion. Reference-type stickies should be locked, and updated only by a designated thread keeper (a forum mod) so that the information in them can be found and they don't grow out of control.

If the restructuring goes through, that should be relatively easy to do- each of the volunteers gets responsibility for a certain area of the forum.
I agree with the general point, though.

DoctorOhh · 01-25-2011, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

the stickies must be read only ( for most users) & drastically shortened.

If the stickies are read only, then it goes without saying that the stickies would be drastically shortened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Reference-type stickies should be locked, and updated only by a designated thread keeper (a forum mod) so that the information in them can be found and they don't grow out of control.

This sounds like the plan thus far.

mrmikel · 01-25-2011, 06:12 AM

As topics get too long, people stop looking, just as I, after looking at the first two pages, have skipped to the end.

One thing I did not see mentioned is the shortcoming of search on this site. It seldom seems to yield relevant results. I have trouble finding things that I posted earlier, when searching my user name.

This may be to some extent the problem with new users. They do not want to read endless forums to try to find an answer that may not be there. This is not to say that there is not an entitlement mentality everywhere these days. I see it in my own business, where people demand rather than ask.

Would grafting the Google or other search engine give better results? That might be more effective than rearranging deck chairs on mobileread.

01-24-2011, 08:35 PM	#77
Piper_ ~~~~~ Posts: 761 Karma: 1278391 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: USA Device: Kindle 3, Sony 350	A few random thoughts: -- If we can, it seems it would be most helpful to keep specific "How do I"s in their own separate posts, so they can be linked to directly as answers to questions. -- Should we start gathering and deciding (in this thread) upon the most frequently asked (specific) questions here to put together step-by-step answers for? -- I agree that the focus should be on commonly needed functions. In the "read this first," and perhaps in the ap itself, I'd consider putting in a caveat that the advanced features available for doing uncommon tasks are meant for power users, requiring more user experience or study, and not to count on support. (You could add a power-users section for those discussions, but with the notice that... well, there's no lifeguard on duty for that end of the pool. ) -- As for common features and cleanup help, maybe under your Code: Conversion: 1. Using search and replace section we could keep an updated post at the top with a list of successful regex snippets they can try? (I found the snippets I needed by digging through several threads and tweaking them a little when needed. Seems it would be good to have them all together.) -- I wonder if it would be helpful to have a general "Troubleshooting" section just for questions about unexpected behaviors.

01-25-2011, 03:29 AM	#84
DoctorOhh US Navy, Retired Posts: 9,864 Karma: 13806776 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North Carolina Device: Icarus Illumina XL HD, Nexus 7	Let me start by saying, I would be glad to help with forum maintenance and sticky development. I am a night owl usually stopping in from between 8pm to 8am Eastern Standard Time (-5 GMT). I've reviewed the thread and I am all for Read-only stickies that point to or describe solutions. It should save me the trouble of bookmarking so many threads. I'm not a developer, programmer or regex expert but I know what I know and most of the time I am successful at conveying to others what I know. I also usually recognize what I don't know and stay away or help gather information so when others with the know how arrive they won't have to guess at what is being asked. The one thing I did notice (of myself) was that after the recipes were sent off to a sub-forum I stopped trying to deal with recipes anymore. So as sub-forums are created, for this to be successful, folks will have to work a little more to keep up with their areas of oversight or interest. One last thing the manual in a wiki would be nice. When I write documentation, no matter how many times I review it there are at least 3 things I see that need correcting immediately after publishing. A wiki setting would also allow our (I can't remember who) self professed proofreader(s) a chance to use his or her skills easily without jumping through too many hoops. Last edited by DoctorOhh; 01-25-2011 at 03:33 AM.

01-25-2011, 04:27 AM	#87
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	Give a Man a Fish, Feed Him For a Day It has become clear that this forum is moving beyond my interests, so I am bowing out. I wish you all the best of luck. An exception: I would participate in a subforum dedicated to discussions of calibre's technology, as long as the word "geek" does not appear in its title or description. Oh, and FWIW: regular expressions were used by linguists many years before they were used by programmers.

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01-24-2011, 08:10 PM	#76
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,871 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I'm happy if people just send me txt files with doc updates, I'll take care of merging them into the docs.

01-24-2011, 08:56 PM	#78
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,871 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	We'll definitely have a list of commonly used regexes. I dont think having a separate Troubleshooting area is a good idea as that defeats the purpose of breaking up the rest of the forum into sections. There si already a list of frequently asked questions here http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html, if peopl ehave any others they want added, feel free to post them (and their answers if possible) and I'll add them to that list.

01-24-2011, 09:41 PM	#80
MmavisO Seeker Posts: 349 Karma: 479648 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Liberty, MO USA Device: Asus TF, PB 360, Jetbook Lite	I would like to add my vote to the several above who have mentioned a Geek-to-English vocabulary. It doesn't have to be lengthy, but it does have to assume little-to-none geekspeak. My eyes also glaze over when reading some threads explaining how to do this or that really cool thing. I don't have time/energy/desire to become a python programmer, so mostly I just file it away as it's possible for power users, but not for me--maybe some day. As a result, I know that I only use about 2% of what Calibre can do, and maybe 33% of what I wish I could do, and know is possible. Of course, there is a lot in Calibre that I have no desire or need for, but that only shows how powerful an application it is. About all I can contribute is a willingness to read any vocabulary pages or other stickies for "non-geek" friendliness. If I can understand it, just about anyone should be able to.

01-24-2011, 10:00 PM	#81
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,871 Karma: 22666666 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	@Piper: Essentially, yes. Forum structure, FAQ and manual suggestions are welcome. I've added the bit about the library folder. It's not easy to add a link to the FAQ into the sidebar (the sidebar is autogenerated)

01-25-2011, 04:08 AM	#85
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	the stickies must be read only ( for most users) & drastically shortened. currently the number of replies per sticky ranges from are mere 100 , up to 918 - the average would be in the 400 range faced with that, there's no way I'm going to read 400+ posts in order to maybe find relevant help! I'll do what everyone else seems to do & ask in a new thread - which defeats the object of having stickies

01-25-2011, 04:13 AM	#86
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	cybmole is 100% right regarding the stickies. I've never read most of them, because they're just too huge. If I need to know something I search for it, which doesn't require adhesion. Reference-type stickies should be locked, and updated only by a designated thread keeper (a forum mod) so that the information in them can be found and they don't grow out of control.

01-25-2011, 06:12 AM	#90
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	As topics get too long, people stop looking, just as I, after looking at the first two pages, have skipped to the end. One thing I did not see mentioned is the shortcoming of search on this site. It seldom seems to yield relevant results. I have trouble finding things that I posted earlier, when searching my user name. This may be to some extent the problem with new users. They do not want to read endless forums to try to find an answer that may not be there. This is not to say that there is not an entitlement mentality everywhere these days. I see it in my own business, where people demand rather than ask. Would grafting the Google or other search engine give better results? That might be more effective than rearranging deck chairs on mobileread.

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