New and Confused

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

oh, i would be very interested in a new tool to create epubs, particularly if it includes image support !!! and i think there would be quite a lot of people interested in that, in fact. have you seen some of the suggestions in the epub poll thread ? (for instance jellby's). i hope you do find the time for it. please keep us posted. i don't care about bd support so i'd be interested even in early versions with just basic features.

I plan on making the first public release when I have decent epub output working. After all, the driving force is creating an epub editor, and I do understand that a lot of people don't care for LRF now that there's an open and future-oriented standard for ebooks, and it's supported on the PRS-505. But LRF is a good format for the Reader, in and of itself. I have very few gripes with it... and one has to think of the PRS-500 owners.

Also, not everybody has a Reader, and if one's to create a replacement for BD, one should support the other, more obscure formats. I plan to get to them all eventually.

But creating a great epub editor is top priority. Creating an application that can replace BD for all tasks is number two. Number three is creating a body of portable, well-designed, well-performing and very well documented C++ code for all those formats, so other people can plug it in their own (open source) applications and have various output options. I expect that creating an editor that exports full-featured LRF will entail walking through the fires of Hell... there's very little documentation on it. So if I have to struggle to figure it out and support it, it would be great if I can spare other people the trouble.

Oh, and I plan on providing binaries for Windows, Mac and Linux. There's been enough of platform-locked applications already... I don't plan on making another.

EDIT: And thanks for the link to the poll thread, haven't noticed it before.

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

An ePub editor is something we really need, but I suggest using Calibre for import and export. Calibre's any2epub is already pretty good and it does not need to be perfect, because your editor then cleans up its mistakes. Calibre's (eventual) epub2any does need to do perfect format shifts in order to use the ePub as the "master", but it only needs to be perfect on ePubs from your editor and this will happen automatically if the editor is widely used.

I've thought about this and decided against it. One of the major reasons is that I don't want to depend on other people's source code and implementation. If for instance Kovid makes an unfortunate mistake, it brakes the output. I also hate Python and the performance hit it brings. I want modular C++ that can be natively compiled and run on most platforms.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Valloric

I plan on making the first public release when I have decent epub output working. After all, the driving force is creating an epub editor, and I do understand that a lot of people don't care for LRF now that there's an open and future-oriented standard for ebooks, and it's supported on the PRS-505. But LRF is a good format for the Reader, in and of itself. I have very few gripes with it... and one has to think of the PRS-500 owners.

Also, not everybody has a Reader, and if one's to create a replacement for BD, one should support the other, more obscure formats. I plan to get to them all eventually.

those are all excellent points, and i agree with them, but epub can be converted using calibre or other tools (mobipocket desktop app converts it into mobi already, calibre soon will as well) and there are a plethora of excellent conversion tools already (from mobi for instance you can make an imp file in about 3 clicks and 15 seconds using nrapallo's excellent tools) so i'm not sure it's really so important to support bd at all ; better to make a really good, valid epub file, and then convert that to any other formats (lrf, mobi, imp) necessary.

But creating a great epub editor is top priority. Creating an application that can replace BD for all tasks is number two. Number three is creatign a body of portable, well-designed, well-performing and very well documented C++ code for all those formats, so other people can plug it in their own (open source) applications and have various output options. I expect that creating an editor that exports full-featured LRF will entail walking through the fires of Hell... there's very little documentation on it. So if I have to struggle to figure it out and support it, it would be great if I can spare other people the trouble.

Oh, and I plan on providing binaries for Windows, Mac and Linux. There's been enough of platform-locked applications already... I don't plan on making another.

bravo for all those intentions and initiatives ! i think that's brilliant and you'd definitely definitely be fulfilling a very real need.

i do recommend you take a look at what exists already before you get started, to save yourself some work if you can use existing tools. as i said, there are a lot of really conversion tools already that you might be able to build from or integrate into your tool. i really think you could easily replace bd by creating just an epub editor with additional conversion capabilities (that is one of the beautiful things about epub, after all...), and most of those tools are already available (calibre, mobi2imp, etc.) you might want to speak with nrapallo as well, he's one of the resident imp experts and he has authored quite a lot of conversion etc. tools himself, he might be able to give you some good info. i can't wait to see what you come up with !

EDIT ok, some of this was addressed while i was writing by your previous post, so you can just pretend i didn't say those bits.

[Valloric]

We've also hit the classic converter vs editor debate. As a perfectionist, I want the text I edit in whatever editor I use to end up exactly that way in the format I want. Converters can't guarantee you that. They could change some minor things, and they usually do. If I go to hours upon hours of trouble to proofread a book I've scanned (for personal use), I do not want to have to go through it all again. The editor should be the last line of defense: when you get the text right there, it should end up that way in the resulting file. IMO, at least.

I do plan on using a wide variety of open source code to create all the other parts of the application. Like for instance wxWidgets for that native look-and-feel on all platforms.

[mtravellerh]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

oh, i would be very interested in a new tool to create epubs, particularly if it includes image support !!! and i think there would be quite a lot of people interested in that, in fact. have you seen some of the suggestions in the epub poll thread ? (for instance jellby's). i hope you do find the time for it. please keep us posted. i don't care about bd support so i'd be interested even in early versions with just basic features.

Calibre gets better and better concerning epub generation. If you create nice xhtml and xml source files, it creates VERY valuable Epubs including image support, pagebreaks, outline TOC, cover and all. Here is an example.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Valloric

We've also hit the classic converter vs editor debate. As a perfectionist, I want the text I edit in whatever editor I use to end up exactly that way in the format I want. Converters can't guarantee you that. They could change some minor things, and they usually do. If I go to hours upon hours of trouble to proofread a book I've scanned (for personal use), I do not want to have to go through it all again. The editor should be the last line of defense: when you get the text right there, it should end up that way in the resulting file. IMO, at least.

I do plan on using a wide variety of open source code to create all the other parts of the application. Like for instance wxWidgets for that native look-and-feel on all platforms.

oh, i do understand that, although i fear there you may run into some frustrating limitations depending on which format you are creating, regardless of the method. for instance, i gave up on creating a mobipocket version of my illustrated "three men in a boat" by Jerome K. Jerome when i discovered that mobipocket cannot support floated images instead it inserts them in between blocks of text, which in this particular case completely broke the flow of the book, as most of the illustrations were designed to have text wrapped around them, particularly the illuminated lettrines of each chapter. in that case there is not much you can do, sadly.

however, no converter should modify the *text* of the book even if they might modify the format because of unsupported features.

but, it is your tool, so you can do whatever you prefer. i was just trying to be helpful.

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

but, it is your tool, so you can do whatever you prefer. i was just trying to be helpful.

I welcome all suggestions/comments/criticism. That's basically the point of making an application open source, which the editor will be. And yes, I expect a multitude of problems will crop up with all the various formats out there, but it's a long ways of. I won't try to add more output options until I have a very nice epub editor, and I expect that will take some time all by itself.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Valloric

I welcome all suggestions/comments/criticism. That's basically the point of making an application open source, which the editor will be. And yes, I expect a multitude of problems will crop up with all the various formats out there, but it's a long ways of. I won't try to add more output options until I have a very nice epub editor, and I expect that will take some time all by itself.

thanks. i don't know how to write applications so i'm very much in admiration of those who do, but since this is an area which very much interests me i feared my enthusiasm was becoming a bit overbearing.

[Spanner]

Anotherchance, I finally got to open my 505 Christmas morning, and the first purchase I made was 3 of Jeremy Clarksons ebooks from Waterstones, I now have...world according to...riled up...and,....and another thing. If you happen to know of any others available for purchase I would appreciate the heads up, thanks.