Annoying Screen flash - Page 4

m-reader · 02-07-2010, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

My motivation in posting here was because I kept seeing e-ink advocates across the Internet sweepingly condemn LCD screens and argue that e-ink readers were easy on the eyes--and much easier than LCDs. Statements such as "LCD screens are not good for reading", "LCDs give you eye strain", "Reading on an LCD is like staring into a bright bulb", etc. You all know the type of comments I mean.

Vast majority of those comments came from people who've actually tried reading on LCD and then moved on (including me). I think it's silly to assume that people are bashing LCD technology just for the hell of it.

Canuck_in_Japan · 02-07-2010, 02:00 AM

Jetbook is the perfect medium. No screen flash and not hard on the eyes

lene1949 · 02-07-2010, 03:45 AM

I really can't see the problem... Even reading a 'normal' (pbook) creates an interruption in reading...A scroll would be perfect..

My palm Zire72 has an immediate refresh, much faster than a pbook, but the screen is very small, and I honestly don't have a problem with the refresh rate on my kindle... On my Hanvon, the screen doesn't go black, but the new page comes up slower than on the kindle.

robinson · 02-13-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-reader

Vast majority of those comments came from people who've actually tried reading on LCD and then moved on (including me). I think it's silly to assume that people are bashing LCD technology just for the hell of it.

Doubtful! Vast majority have moved on? I don't think so. I'll bet most of e-ink readers still read on LCDs and for many hours a day.

It's a good strawman argument-- that I'm arguing that people are bashing LCD tech for the hell of it! Nice try, but no dice!

Nope, I think many people do suffer from eye strain on computer screens and that many do prefer e-ink screens. I have no problem with people saying that *for them* they prefer e-ink to LCDs, but to generalize and claim that LCDs per se cause eye strain, that e-ink devices are universally better and do not create eye problems, that the iPad is no ebook device because it doesn't use e-ink, etc. is just plain nonsense!

I also will bet that most people who have problems with LCD screens would find reading much better with a change in brightness, font size, switching to single column text display of greater width, and removal of distracting Flash ads and avoiding wide screen text displays.

In short, a calm black and white reading experience should trump a busy, bloomin' buzzin' browsin' experience...

But that's not what the reality of reading on an iPad will be, with adjustable colors, fonts, font size, margins, etc.

I also think it's imperative that e-ink advocates acknowledge that the screen flashes on page turning and that many are bothered by that!

DoctorOhh · 02-13-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

Doubtful! Vast majority have moved on? I don't think so. I'll bet most of e-ink readers still read on LCDs and for many hours a day.

I'm sure they do read on lcd screens, web browsing and work, but not for recreational reading of novels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

Nope, I think many people do suffer from eye strain on computer screens and that many do prefer e-ink screens. I have no problem with people saying that *for them* they prefer e-ink to LCDs, but to generalize and claim that LCDs per se cause eye strain, that e-ink devices are universally better and do not create eye problems

For any person that has a problem with eye strain the above generalization is an absolute fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

that the iPad is no ebook device because it doesn't use e-ink, etc. is just plain nonsense!

Your right that is nonsense for all of the folks who do not suffer from eye strain. Plus there are many other technologies coming out this year that will easily compete with e-ink among those that do suffer from eye strain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

I also will bet that most people who have problems with LCD screens would find reading much better with a change in brightness, font size, switching to single column text display of greater width, and removal of distracting Flash ads and avoiding wide screen text displays.

Your right again, but no tweaking of a LCD screen will equal a epaper screen for those that suffer from eye strain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

But that's not what the reality of reading on an iPad will be, with adjustable colors, fonts, font size, margins, etc.

If I was 15 years younger I would get the ipad for all my reading needs. Certainly its size makes it a better device for for technical reading and text books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

I also think it's imperative that e-ink advocates acknowledge that the screen flashes on page turning and that many are bothered by that!

The "screen flashes" may be annoying to some but they do not contribute to eye strain.

robinson · 04-03-2010, 04:41 PM

Appreciate the fair and thoughtful reply!

I'll still wager that many who have trouble with eye strain with LCD screens have mis-generalized-- not only for the masses (e-ink good, LCD bad for everyone)--but even for themselves!

We should run the controlled experiment. iPad vs. Kindle. Or even MacBook Pro with the LCD screen tweaked to settings I've described. I will wager that many of those with "eye strain" will be perfectly comfortable (if we can overcome their inherent bias). A huge part of the dislike of reading on LCD screens comes from their being too bright, long left-right eye motion, and Flash ads.

Another big variable not considered is the ergonomics involved--a Kindle in one's lap in a comfy chair vs. a laptop on the desktop.

Hmm... maybe I can get a grant from Apple to study this.

Now, a nit-pick.

"For any person that has a problem with eye strain the above generalization is an absolute fact." But it isn't!

My point was that for them it may be a fact (although they'd really have to isolate the other variables!), but that does not make it a generalization for the masses!

That's my key point--too many e-ink advocates claim that LCD screens, ipso facto, cause eye strain and thus the iPad can't work as an ereader. And that's pure rubbish.

Add to that the thousands, and likely millions, who read *books* on their iPhones, iPod Touches, & other LCD devices, and you have pretty clear evidence that one man's poison is another man's dessert! (Given I modified it from meat to dessert for us vegetarians, I suppose to be p.c., I also should say person!)

I'll bet that once you try an iPad, and adjust the ebook reader settings to suit your taste, you'll be perfectly comfortable reading on it--especially in low light or in the middle of the night when the Kindle can't function!

HarryT · 04-04-2010, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinson

That's my key point--too many e-ink advocates claim that LCD screens, ipso facto, cause eye strain and thus the iPad can't work as an ereader. And that's pure rubbish.

No, it's the "staring into a light" aspect of it that results in eye-strain. Non-backlit, reflective LCD screens are fine, as are backlit screens if you can turn the level of illumination down to a sensible level. Most laptops, etc, have a screen that is way, way too bright for reading on in a dimly-lit room.

Desertway · 04-05-2010, 07:15 PM

This is a weird argument. How can you argue whether something is annoying to another person, or whether someone other than yourself is experiencing eyestrain?

As for the refresh, I think some of this is context. Yeah, compared to turning the pages of a pbook, the flash should be no big deal. On the other hand, I've been watching pages turn for 45 years. I've seen eInk pages refresh for a couple of months. They bug me.

Also, before buying a dedicated reader, I used my Palm for years and years to read. So I got used to scrolling rather than flashing. This makes my Libre a great device for me. I have a friend who went kicking and screaming from pBooks to a Kindle, and now does not notice the refresh at all.

Different strokes and all that....

rchiav · 04-06-2010, 09:31 AM

It's not all about eye strain either. I spend a lot of time reading on the computer and I also calibrate my monitors so they're not too bright along with having accurate colors. I still have a harder time focusing on words on a screen. If I hold a piece of paper up next to the monitor, it's much easier to read compared to what's on the screen. Can I read off a monitor? Sure.. I do it for 8 hours a day for work. Does that mean it's not easier to read off of paper or an eInk screen? No, it doesn't.

jabberwock_11 · 04-07-2010, 02:17 AM

I have issues with looking at lcd screens for too long, my eyes really start to hurt and the last thing I want to do when I am winding down is look at another lcd screen, so e-ink is a beautiful thing to me.

The flash refreshes the screen with every page turn rather than constantly. This feature reduces the eye strain as well as reducing the battery drain, which is the big draw of e-ink screens. If I have to choose between way better battery life and reduced issues with eye fatigue or no flashing screen I will I will choose the better battery life and reduced eye fatigue every time.

If the refresh is that big of a deal try the Neo/Boox, the refresh rate on these guys is way faster than on the Sony Readers.

Sweetpea · 04-07-2010, 03:30 AM

I often get eyestrain when reading on my Mini. Probably because it's not backlit and I don't want to turn on that 3x60W lamp in the living room when I'm reading. Or when I'm reading in bed, with the bedlight turned on.

Which is why I have two devices. One for bright areas and one for dark areas.

You will always get eyestrain when you're reading with either insufficient light or too much light.

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02-07-2010, 02:00 AM	#47
Canuck_in_Japan Wizard Posts: 1,475 Karma: 14328611 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tokyo, Japan Device: Aura, Aura H2O, Kindle PW3	Jetbook is the perfect medium. No screen flash and not hard on the eyes

02-07-2010, 03:45 AM	#48
lene1949 Wizard Posts: 1,952 Karma: 213930 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Middelfart, Denmark Device: Kindle paper white	I really can't see the problem... Even reading a 'normal' (pbook) creates an interruption in reading...A scroll would be perfect.. My palm Zire72 has an immediate refresh, much faster than a pbook, but the screen is very small, and I honestly don't have a problem with the refresh rate on my kindle... On my Hanvon, the screen doesn't go black, but the new page comes up slower than on the kindle.

04-03-2010, 04:41 PM	#51
robinson Zealot Posts: 142 Karma: 997293 Join Date: Jan 2003	Appreciate the fair and thoughtful reply! I'll still wager that many who have trouble with eye strain with LCD screens have mis-generalized-- not only for the masses (e-ink good, LCD bad for everyone)--but even for themselves! We should run the controlled experiment. iPad vs. Kindle. Or even MacBook Pro with the LCD screen tweaked to settings I've described. I will wager that many of those with "eye strain" will be perfectly comfortable (if we can overcome their inherent bias). A huge part of the dislike of reading on LCD screens comes from their being too bright, long left-right eye motion, and Flash ads. Another big variable not considered is the ergonomics involved--a Kindle in one's lap in a comfy chair vs. a laptop on the desktop. Hmm... maybe I can get a grant from Apple to study this. Now, a nit-pick. "For any person that has a problem with eye strain the above generalization is an absolute fact." But it isn't! My point was that for them it may be a fact (although they'd really have to isolate the other variables!), but that does not make it a generalization for the masses! That's my key point--too many e-ink advocates claim that LCD screens, ipso facto, cause eye strain and thus the iPad can't work as an ereader. And that's pure rubbish. Add to that the thousands, and likely millions, who read books on their iPhones, iPod Touches, & other LCD devices, and you have pretty clear evidence that one man's poison is another man's dessert! (Given I modified it from meat to dessert for us vegetarians, I suppose to be p.c., I also should say person!) I'll bet that once you try an iPad, and adjust the ebook reader settings to suit your taste, you'll be perfectly comfortable reading on it--especially in low light or in the middle of the night when the Kindle can't function!

04-05-2010, 07:15 PM	#53
Desertway Addict Posts: 313 Karma: 1701842 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kindle Oasis 3	This is a weird argument. How can you argue whether something is annoying to another person, or whether someone other than yourself is experiencing eyestrain? As for the refresh, I think some of this is context. Yeah, compared to turning the pages of a pbook, the flash should be no big deal. On the other hand, I've been watching pages turn for 45 years. I've seen eInk pages refresh for a couple of months. They bug me. Also, before buying a dedicated reader, I used my Palm for years and years to read. So I got used to scrolling rather than flashing. This makes my Libre a great device for me. I have a friend who went kicking and screaming from pBooks to a Kindle, and now does not notice the refresh at all. Different strokes and all that....

04-06-2010, 09:31 AM	#54
rchiav Member Posts: 17 Karma: 23 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Nook	It's not all about eye strain either. I spend a lot of time reading on the computer and I also calibrate my monitors so they're not too bright along with having accurate colors. I still have a harder time focusing on words on a screen. If I hold a piece of paper up next to the monitor, it's much easier to read compared to what's on the screen. Can I read off a monitor? Sure.. I do it for 8 hours a day for work. Does that mean it's not easier to read off of paper or an eInk screen? No, it doesn't.

04-07-2010, 02:17 AM	#55
jabberwock_11 Addict Posts: 231 Karma: 1591305 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Savannah, GA USA Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, Aluratek Libre Pro	I have issues with looking at lcd screens for too long, my eyes really start to hurt and the last thing I want to do when I am winding down is look at another lcd screen, so e-ink is a beautiful thing to me. The flash refreshes the screen with every page turn rather than constantly. This feature reduces the eye strain as well as reducing the battery drain, which is the big draw of e-ink screens. If I have to choose between way better battery life and reduced issues with eye fatigue or no flashing screen I will I will choose the better battery life and reduced eye fatigue every time. If the refresh is that big of a deal try the Neo/Boox, the refresh rate on these guys is way faster than on the Sony Readers.

04-07-2010, 03:30 AM	#56
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	I often get eyestrain when reading on my Mini. Probably because it's not backlit and I don't want to turn on that 3x60W lamp in the living room when I'm reading. Or when I'm reading in bed, with the bedlight turned on. Which is why I have two devices. One for bright areas and one for dark areas. You will always get eyestrain when you're reading with either insufficient light or too much light.