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Old 07-07-2011, 01:59 PM   #91
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:02 PM   #92
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:55 PM   #93
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I knew someone had to think of this before me! They probably cost the earth but I am going to follow up on some of these link. Does anyone actually make an e-ink monitor? that would solve a lot of problems as the music and software could actually be kept on a small netbook and simply displayed on a monitor. I use my HP monitor at home to read music as it is one of those square upright screens rather than a wide screen. But carrying around a heavy and fragile monitor is not very practical.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:09 PM   #94
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no one makes an eink monitor. i've been making inquiries...
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:17 AM   #95
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I wish someone among the decision-makers inside the e-ink companies was following this thread!
I can't understand why this niche market still doesn't exist. The objections about:

-"It's too big for my pocket": And your backpack?? When you take a A4-size magazine, it doesn't seem to be too big. Except pocket books, A4-size is one the most common size of all the printed material! Nearly all the magazines are this size, and of course, 100% of academic papers.

-"over 400g, it's too heavy". Look at all the 12" tablet PC. Some weigh near 2Kg (4.4lbs) (DEll latitude XT2, etc...). You don't use them with one arm extended, but differently, on a table (like academic papers for example, you put them on your desk usually, to put note on them)

-"over 400€, It's too pricey": If you are the only one to produce a device in a niche market, the price can be easily quite high. Lots of 12" tablet PC for example cost over 1500€ (2150$) or more (tablet PC for professional).

I think that previous devices with bad advertising (without having studied for who the device was designed), bad ergonomy, poorly constructed, are the reasons why we are still waiting for the next big screen e-ink revolution.

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Old 07-08-2011, 03:34 AM   #96
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As you say those kind of objections make no sense in electronic market where we are used to have multiple choices from the cheaper ones (consumers) to the most expensive ones (professional). As I said before this is one of the few market where users simply have limited or no choice at all. There are no "flagship" model and this makes very little sense, most of all, if you take into account all the concept/prototypes already shown from 2010 onward and that the technology is already there.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:27 AM   #97
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I think that previous devices with bad advertising (without having studied for who the device was designed), bad ergonomy, poorly constructed, are the reasons why we are still waiting for the next big screen e-ink revolution.
The problem is with people, and what they would buy. It's easy to say you'd like a device with an A4 screen, but if you actually think about the fact that A5 means half the size, half the weight and lower price, many would realize that they can live with the panning in landscape mode and get an A5 device for the benefits. Proof of that is the fact that people would even use A6 sized devices to read A4 files (actually, the 6" screens are smaller than A6, but you get my point).

Then you have to consider all the things that are required for a device dedicated for academic work:
1. Annotations! Really good annotations, that don't take forever to save and don't turn the page into an image. This is also why I say that we need A4 (14.3"), as just using a 12" screen that would imply cropping means the loss of the really nice margins, and the space for annotation that goes with them.
2. Easy and fast internet connection and a browser capable of downloading files directly to specific folders.
3. Different system for the file organization that accommodates the fact that articles have many co-authors, and books can have different authors for different chapters. Also, the titles of some articles can have the length of a small paragraph, and may contain strange characters.
4. If the references in the article have hyperlinks, those should open the browser to see the referenced article.
5. Easy switch between different articles.
6. A way to quickly browse through an article or book.
7. A quick way to view just the abstracts of the articles.

And even if we get all of this in a device, there would still be complaints about the fact that it needs color, and that it's easier to look at more than one article if you have them printed and spread across your desk.

BTW, the Triton e-ink screen has color, and has been around since last November, but guess what, we still don't have color e-ink devices. Hanvon announced that they were making a 9.7" color reader and 8 months later they still have nothing more than the prototype. We would be lucky to have a 12" device a whole year after somebody announces their intention of making one.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:30 AM   #98
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Then you have to consider all the things that are required for a device dedicated for academic work:
1. Annotations! Really good annotations, that don't take forever to save and don't turn the page into an image. This is also why I say that we need A4 (14.3"), as just using a 12" screen that would imply cropping means the loss of the really nice margins, and the space for annotation that goes with them.
and here it the problem- there is no real way to do this in Linux. everyone uses various workarounds because there is no way currently to annotate pdfs in Linux like you can with windows etc.

It's why Samsung and Plastic Logic actually used windows ce underneath.

The way they both implemented things to account for the decreased margin available was to make each annotation a sort of pop up post-it. wherever you want to leave a remark it opens a post-it like block , you enter your text and then save it. it leaves a carrot there that you can click on to re-open the remark later. all of these went with the document .

Samsung only produced the 6" version and it didnt do well in the market because of price.
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Old 07-08-2011, 01:13 PM   #99
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and here it the problem- there is no real way to do this in Linux. everyone uses various workarounds because there is no way currently to annotate pdfs in Linux like you can with windows etc.
And nobody would be happy to pay over $1000 for a device that can't do proper annotations.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:40 AM   #100
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Then you have to consider all the things that are required for a device dedicated for academic work:
1. Annotations! Really good annotations, that don't take forever to save and don't turn the page into an image. This is also why I say that we need A4 (14.3"), as just using a 12" screen that would imply cropping means the loss of the really nice margins, and the space for annotation that goes with them.
2. Easy and fast internet connection and a browser capable of downloading files directly to specific folders.
3. Different system for the file organization that accommodates the fact that articles have many co-authors, and books can have different authors for different chapters. Also, the titles of some articles can have the length of a small paragraph, and may contain strange characters.
4. If the references in the article have hyperlinks, those should open the browser to see the referenced article.
5. Easy switch between different articles.
6. A way to quickly browse through an article or book.
7. A quick way to view just the abstracts of the articles.
Good list. In my view, the key points are #1, 5 and 6. It is interesting to note that a device based on a non-backlit, black-and-white LCD screen fitted with a Wacom-like digitizer would satisfy ALL of the above requirements. And we know such a device to be technically and commercially feasible because of the Asus eeeNote EA800. (Which of course is too small and has limited capabilities. The second issue could be addressed by firmware updates, the first of course not.)
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:16 AM   #101
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At the moment it's a nonsense that there is no device with the 12.1" screen advertised by E-Ink on their site (I think this one is Triton btw and not Pearl).
Also software cannot be the issue if hardware tech is ready. Just take the Onyx M90 and put a 12.1" screen on it with maybe a slightly faster processor, that's all.
I still think 13.1" or 14" would be the best choice but 12.1" with margin cropping (wich M90 has by default in its zooming functions) it's at least readable.
Big screen it's not just for academics but for magazines as well, techincal books (programming, graphics, etc.) and to some extent even newspaper (this would still mean panning btw)

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Old 07-09-2011, 11:16 AM   #102
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At the moment it's a nonsense that there is no device with the 12.1" screen advertised by E-Ink on their site (I think this one is Triton btw and not Pearl).
The sales sheets of both triton and pearl have written as available sizes 2 to 12 inches. Maybe even the older vizplex was going up to 12", but I can't find a sales sheet for that.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:29 PM   #103
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vizplex was only available up to 9.7". it was a limitation of the display controller if i remember correctly.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:33 PM   #104
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vizplex was only available up to 9.7". it was a limitation of the display controller if i remember correctly.
So the display controller for pearl is better. The question would be if it is good enough to be used with even bigger screens than 12".

Do you happen to know if triton has the same controller as pearl, or a different one?
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:04 PM   #105
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I'm just guessing but I think the 12.1" they "advertise" is the Triton. I say this based on the concept of the e-Textbook from Surfaceink (you can find it in the e-ink website) wich sports a 12.1" color multi-touch screen.
Of course this project seems to have been discontinued as every other... so sad
I would be very happy with a 12.1" b/w Pearl btw.. and a 13"/14" would be heaven
Look Onyx there are customers for you here!!!

EDIT: Sorry Sil_liS I didn't catch your note about both screens sales sheet at first! Well a 12.1" Pearl would be great!!! (Triton seems a bit washed from the pictures so I'd rather go on a good b/w than a bad color)

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