HUGE E-Ink Tablets!

[SolRaven]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Yeah, I've heard about those prototypes, which solves part of my problem, but not all of it.

See the thing is, I would use it for notes in class, or at work meetings. When you're taking multiple pages worth of notes, there are times you'll want to refer back to what you've written. If you're in a lecture setting, where you have a QA session after writing notes, not being able to pull it back up would suck.

Plus, I want a tablet with different templates, like ruled and gragh paper. I can only imagine how much more messy my note will be if I try writing on an unruled tablet!

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

yeah its an unfortunate limitation of the tech in use. in order to be able to write to the display it would have to be a "regular" active matrix ch-lcd panel. now it would be costing more like a tablet and all of the hurdles that then brings

Not necessarily. You could have an eInk based notepad, especially if you used a wacom digitizer. I think that it would be possible to have a device like that in at less than the cost of a tablet, if you went pretty low on frills.

[Dulin's Books]

tablet was possibly the wrong word. mulit-function device with an lcd display in the 6-10 inch display size range

take for instance the Pocketbook 603/903 or Onyx A60/M90. 6" and 9.7"eink devices with wacom digitizers for pen input(Irex readers too for that matter). Each allows for notes in some form. Onyx even has multiple templates (blank, ruled, music score etc) for making your notes on.

just the displays themselves are like $25-$60 per display in volume. add 5 bucks for the digitizer layer. then add the other electronics, the plastics for the shell and actual production costs. your at something like $60 to $130/$140 to produce a device depending on screen size.

put a retail price to that cost. bare minimum is going to be over $100. the large display will be closer to $300. try to get someone to buy "just a notebook" at that price. so you have choices. either add some value buy making it able to import and read other text besides your handwritten notes or use a display material that gives a you a more consumer friendly price level but isn't capable of all the other things.

Improv/Kent/boogie board display is the most cost effective way at this time. they want to put a pen input layer that will remember what you write for later use but to add an active matrix panel that could recall what was written before adds to the cost which puts them up into the multi-use product level and then they are competing in a whole different space and price point.

I'm not even sure we will get to a point where it will be cost effective any time soon. because as soon as the display becomes "cost effective" to use its then improved. the improved material comes at a higher cost and the old material ceases to be made. If someone was still producing first gen. Eink active matrix material at volume then we probably could have a nice notepad. but Pearl is too expensive for that and just about when it comes close in price we'll see the new stuff.

[Hellmark]

To me, having some sort of eink notepad would be worth upto $200 on a six inch, and a bit more for 9.7". Right now, the A60 is $260, and the M90 is a hundred more. The prices are dropping, but slowly.

[Koda]

Hallo, I'm a new user and I'm approaching right now to e-readers so I surfed many websites, blogs and forums to have some infos.
I would like to say my thoughts on the "big screen" subject.
I think that the assetions that there will be "no market" for bigger screen device doesn't make much sense for a simple reason. There are many specialized "objects" wich don't sell in millions copies and are targeted to a niche or specialized marked and they are produced from many vendors.
The assumption that there will be a smaller or specialized marked doesn't mean something should not be invested in and produced, at best it means that the price will be bigger.
This sounds like "don't produce Ferrari or Lamborghini because you won't sell millions" (or more affordable but very specialized non-luxury work tools) and makes no-sense.
We've seen dozens of vapourware/prototypes with big screens 12" or more (just think of the Skiff Reader), E-Ink already has 12.1" displays listed on his site, Bridgestone showed all sizes for his color paper, so the tech is ready, what is missing is just the production stage.
On every forum or blog about tablets/e-readers, I always found disappointed people looking for bigger screens that would allow them to read technical PDFs, newspaper or magazines (wich is not a so small niche after all) and I'm sure those guy will be glad to pay some $bucks more for what they neeed.
So I think the time would be right for the bigger vendors at least to put out some bigger (12"/13") dedicated e-reader to produce in smaller quantities and complete their e-book lines (6"/9.7"/13") with more "professional" stuff.
Just my 2 cents

[HansTWN]

Obviously the manufacturers think that once the price gets to USD 400 or 500, people would rather buy a tablet than an e-ink device.

There may be a market, but obviously from the production side nobody wants to make the jump. Plastic Logic was the best example. If the market was there, why did they pull it? Nobody is willing to bet their money on such a product -- it is as simple as that.

[Koda]

I don't think that if price gets to 500$ (or more) people looking for a 13" e-reader would switch to 10.1" tablet it's a completely different product (size wise and for lcd).
As new to this world I really find hard (given that tech already exists and prototyped) to understand why manufacturers don't expand the lineup with several screen sizes. Having a broader product range is a widespread market trend. You have the cheaper model wich sells lots and you go up to the more expensive model where you sell less at an higher price.
After all if asus is putting out eee slate 12" at over $1200 along with other more "usual" size I don't think they plan to sell them as much as the "smaller" ones.
Also completing the line TODAY with such a product on the market (not just vaporware) would be a big advertising for the manufacturer wich would be the first to include big size e-reader in it's lineup.
I find really hard to understand marketing choices in this field.

[Sil_liS]

You are not thinking about the weight. There are many who consider the 9.7" models to be too heavy. If the manufacturers switch to plastic substrates, they will be able to make devices that weigh less, so bigger screens will be possible.

[Koda]

Don't know about the E-ink Triton but it seems Bridgeston e-paper could be already suitable for this (even though maybe not the best quality for reading I don't know).
The odd point here is that this is one of the few (if not the only one) tech related business where at least major brands don't have dozens of models for each price range, from the most popular to the flagship model. Just think about mobile phones, computers, hi-fi, and then cars, musical instruments and everything else. How many Roland TD20KX V-Drums Roland has planned to sell at over €6.000 compared to their base model wich ships for less than 1/6 the price? Nonetheless they have their flagship model in production.
If we hadn't see prototypes one could think that scaling poses major technical issues but it's not so, so (for me) the mistery remains.
I've seen there is an Onyx representative wandering here in the forums, it would be nice to hear his point on the subject. They just relased their M90 E-Ink pearl touch reader, why not a M120 with a limited production when E-ink already ships 12.1" screens? They would be the first and gain added value in advertising also for producing just say a 1000/5000 sample commercial units.

[BoldlyDubious]

I quite agree with Koda. In the academic world alone, many people would welcome larger devices (say, 12" diagonal), because they would let them bring large stacks of A4-sized papers with them, for reading or for reference, without much of the weight.
Even more interestingly, *universities* could decide to buy such devices in bulk to give them to their academic personnel, in order to save on the (monstruous) amount of prints that they produce just to read scientific literature (most people do not like to use a computer screen for that). Such bulk orders could even be enough, on their own, to support the presence of a "high-end" model in a manufacturer's lineup.

[anjirlly]

Think about the fragility of the larger screens. There are tons of people who are very unhappy when their 6" screen breaks, even though they handled it very carefully. I'm very interested in a larger e-ink reader for academic use, but I also want to be sure that it really can be transported safely.

[Koda]

The major point I think is that one should be able to choose, while in this e-consumer sector there is very limited (usually 2-3 models of the same size) choice per vendor.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Obviously the manufacturers think that once the price gets to USD 400 or 500, people would rather buy a tablet than an e-ink device.

There may be a market, but obviously from the production side nobody wants to make the jump. Plastic Logic was the best example. If the market was there, why did they pull it?

because they screwed up the launch and pricing. by the time they were ready to launch their device was almost a full cycle behind. Plastic Logic hasnt been standing still. they are preparing to to start producing their 2nd gen device

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

You are not thinking about the weight. There are many who consider the 9.7" models to be too heavy. If the manufacturers switch to plastic substrates, they will be able to make devices that weigh less, so bigger screens will be possible.

Prime View/Eink holdings has been unable to increase the yield sufficiently for plastic production. look to PL and Polymer Vision

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Dulin's Books

because they screwed up the launch and pricing. by the time they were ready to launch their device was almost a full cycle behind. Plastic Logic hasnt been standing still. they are preparing to to start producing their 2nd gen device

After that screw up the first time around (which will probably a case study in business schools for decades to come) it won't be easy to be successful the second time around. But it is amazing how deep their pockets are, do they have any other products they are selling? How did they manage to stick around until now?