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Old 09-07-2010, 06:28 AM   #61
rhmorrison
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My pet peeve is when people in the stories don't react appropriately to the situation regardless if science fiction, fantasy, horror, crime, action...

A good case in point is the following story:

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One day the first grade teacher was reading the story of Chicken Little to her class. She came to the part of the story where Chicken Little tried to warn the farmer. She read, ".... and so Chicken Little went up to the farmer and said, 'The sky is falling, the sky is falling!' ".
The teacher paused then asked the class, "And what do you think that farmer said?".
One little girl raised her hand and said, "I think he said: "Holy Shit! A talking chicken!".
The teacher was unable to teach for the next 10 minutes.
This is an appropriate reaction to the situation!
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:34 AM   #62
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:57 PM   #63
Steven Lake
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rhmorrison, ROFL!! That's awesome! And yes, I agree, inappropriate reactions suck. Sometimes they're needed, but most of the time they just ruin things.
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Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
I give extra kudos to authors who have their characters speak English (or Standard ) but who tend to lapse into using their native grammatical rules when stressed. That tells me the reader that they have actually given some thought to the culture of the character.
lol, wow, I like that. I've done that a few times myself, but I don't use it that heavily. Now that you mention it, I should have my one Russian character start swearing at a guy in Russian at some point, but have his universal translator screw it up for him so that he gets in trouble. lol.

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Old 09-07-2010, 02:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
The readers will buy most faster-than-light travel IF you take the time to make up a believable technical explanation for it. We appreciate the effort. (My personal favorite is Asaro's imaginary number.)
But not all readers. Under current circumstances, all FTL drives violate causality, which is why most physicists say they are impossible.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/roc...html#causality
The aphorism at rec.arts.sf.written goes "Causality, Relativity, FTL travel: chose any two." It is logically impossible to have all three, one of them has to go. (unless you want to open the squirming can of worms that is Causality Protection)

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Remember that a hole in the spaceship wall sucks everything out, not just the air so weapons which would do so shouldn't even be allowed on the ship in the first place.
The hole will try and suck everything out, but it is not a black hole. All the loose papers and lightweight things will go into the hole, but nothing more massive
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3g.html#meteors
Mythbusters did a related experiment on blowing a hole in an aircraft, and found that no, the passengers would not be forcibly extruded through the hole like a Play-dough Fun Factory.

And "forbidding weapons that can puncture the hull" still covers a lot of ground. Shotguns, frangible rounds and flechette weapons are all firearms that can kill people dead yet not harm the hull.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l1.html

Otherwise I generally agree with your list.

Last edited by nyrath; 09-07-2010 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:21 PM   #65
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Well, I don't mind it either, unless it's taken to orgasmic extent as Weber tends to do at times. I mean, it's not like we're ever going to be in a battle situation where that knowledge is critical.
The question is under what circumstances the reader's understanding is critical.

Weber put a lot of work into the physics underlying his FTL travel. It governs what his combatants can and cannot do, and where they can get to in what time frame. Since the same physics that permits FTL travel also underlies part of the defensive capability of warships in Weber's universe, some notion on the reader's part of how it all works can be seen as critical for understanding the action.

The challenge any SF writer faces is how to integrate that information into a story without great indigestible expository blobs, like lumps in poorly prepared hot cereal. It becomes more pressing when the books are part of a series. You may have explained it all in detail in a prior book, but you can't assume your reader has read that book, and you need ro recapitulate at least partially for the benefit of the newcomer.

Weber can go on a bit, but given the constraints above, I think he does it better than a lot of other authors. I could live without a recapitulation of how things work in the Honorverse, but I've been reading the series since it began. I can't assume everyone else is like me. (The nice thing about the series is that they are all freely available electronically, so newcomers can start at the beginning, but not all will.)

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I'm a Tom Clancy fan too (his solo written books, not the collaborations, with Red Storm Rising being my favorite).
That's probably mine too. One thing that struck me about RSR compared to similar thrillers from other hands is that Clancy has a better touch with characters. He created believable people who you could admire and appreciate, who just happened to be on the wrong side, like Colonel General Alekseyev. In that respect, Weber is similar. Neither writes two dimensional protagonists, and you can understand what shaped those on both sides.

Clancy, alas, is an author who let best seller status go to his head, to the point where he no longer permits editing of his work. There were sections of the last Jack Ryan book that could have been excised with no loss at all, as they did nothing to advance the plot or add to the story. A good editor would have flagged that in a line edit, but Clancy won't permit that.)

I've reached the point where I don't especially care if I read another of his books.
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:06 PM   #66
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Rule: SF stories have room for those who don't know the science and intricacies of everything going on around them.

I am mindful of Wells' hero in The War Of The Worlds, who knew nothing of celestial mechanics, physics, alien physiology, etc, but still provided the reader with enough information about the Martian attack and his efforts to escape it to create a thrilling story. (This is one of the reasons I liked the recent WotW movie: The Tom Cruise character was closer to the hero of the book, an ordinary guy just naturally trying to get the hell out of the way.)
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:14 PM   #67
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Don't forget "The Time Machine" with the Eloi and the Morlocks.

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All of them are dystopian cautionary tales of the "If this goes on..." form, postulating bad ends that might result from current directions. And all are set in the future. Remove the future setting, and you remove the premise and the story.

I talked about SF tropes, but the tropes don't have to directly include science or technology.


Another common error is too narrow a view of science. While "hard" SF tends to be based on physics or chemistry, plenty of other sciences have been fertile seeds for SF. Linguistics is one, like Samuel R. Delany's _Babel 17_. Anthropology is another, like most of the work of the late Chad Oliver. In the case of Brave New Worlds, it's genetics, and the consequences of trying to breed a new, improved humanity.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:30 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Rule: SF stories have room for those who don't know the science and intricacies of everything going on around them.

I am mindful of Wells' hero in The War Of The Worlds, who knew nothing of celestial mechanics, physics, alien physiology, etc, but still provided the reader with enough information about the Martian attack and his efforts to escape it to create a thrilling story. (This is one of the reasons I liked the recent WotW movie: The Tom Cruise character was closer to the hero of the book, an ordinary guy just naturally trying to get the hell out of the way.)
Shame the movie changed the location ....!
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:03 AM   #69
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I'm tired of english speaking aliens (even if justified by universal real time translators and such).
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:24 AM   #70
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:45 AM   #71
Steven Lake
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Over: Maybe so, but if you plan to have any inter-species communication between them, or any conversations that the reader can understand, you'll need it. Otherwise you can only end up with mute aliens, and that's no fun, safe for a sci-fi horror thriller where mute is best.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:15 AM   #72
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Shame the movie changed the location ....!
True... there's no reason it wouldn't have played as well around London. I suppose the selection of Cruise had something to do with that... or the directors thought big-movie-going Americans wouldn't be as "invested" in the direness of the situation unless it happened on U.S. soil. Agh, politics...
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:19 AM   #73
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Otherwise you can only end up with mute aliens, and that's no fun...
Funny how so many of the decisions related to science and realism in SF come down to how "fun" it is... to encounter humanoid aliens, and to speak to them... to travel at ludicrous speeds... to have sex with robots... to have maritime-type battles in deep space... etc...
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:26 AM   #74
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There is also the fact that the Orson Welles broadcast had the story set in NJ rather than in England as well. The filmmakers might have felt that more people are familiar with that version of the story than H.G.Wells actual book. The original WOTW movie was also set in the U.S. if you recall. Probably for the same reason (and possibly in part due to budget needs too).

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True... there's no reason it wouldn't have played as well around London. I suppose the selection of Cruise had something to do with that... or the directors thought big-movie-going Americans wouldn't be as "invested" in the direness of the situation unless it happened on U.S. soil. Agh, politics...
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:37 AM   #75
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There is also the fact that the Orson Welles broadcast had the story set in NJ rather than in England as well. The filmmakers might have felt that more people are familiar with that version of the story than H.G.Wells actual book.
That would be a surprise to me, considering how few of those who would've seen the Cruise movie are likely to have ever actually listened to the broadcast. Sure, most people are aware of it, but I'd think more people would be familiar with the book than the radio show.

Orson Welles knew, of course, that making his radio show sound like it was impacting Americans (largely the only ones who could get the broadcast) made sense from two perspectives: You react more strongly when the threat is closer; and, oh yes, his entire cast happened to be American, and he surely didn't want bad cockney accents to ruin the verisimilitude of his broadcast. His choice, and its effectiveness, probably influenced Hollywood in making similar decisions with foreign content, and helps explain the vast amount of "Americanized" foreign content in movies and TV.

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The original WOTW movie was also set in the U.S. if you recall. Probably for the same reason (and possibly in part due to budget needs too).
When the old movie was made, practicality would have played a big part. Only in America could they do the effects needed for the movie as well. Also, Hollywood wasn't as international in scope then. Hollywood movies were made for Americans, their primary audience and largest revenue stream.

In the case of the new movie, I don't think budget was an issue. Today, countries vie for production locations equally because they can compete with American production budgetary needs. Sets and SFX can make almost any location look like any other location, removing the need to actually be there to fool your audience. Also, if budget was a concern, they could have replaced Cruise (and probably Fanning) with any two well-known actors that don't demand their top-box-office high salaries.

Though the revenue stream has changed, Americans still provide the lion's share of profits, so small- and big-budget Hollywood movies are still done with American audiences in the cross-hairs.
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