O'Reilly predicts a Doom of Obscurity for Kindle ... if it stays proprietary

[Barcey]

It's pretty clear that Amazon's Strategy, Architecture, Design and Implementation is a closed design rather then an open design. This is what he's criticizing. If you are able to get paid content onto the Kindle from a provider other then Amazon it is probably considered a design flaw and isn't relevant to his argument. It's Amazon's strategy that is being criticized and not the product or people's purchasing decision.

I don't personally agree with his conclusion because unlike the examples he provided it would be very easy for Amazon to change to an open strategy and if the competitive market forces them to I'm sure they will. I suspect they know they'll have to change to an open model but they want to be in a dominate market position when they do it. With iTunes they were the open alternative that forced Apple to open up iTunes so they have to understand this. With ebooks they want to be in Apple's position.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by fugazied

It would NOT be the first time O'Reilly was wrong, he makes some outrageous claims sometimes for publicity. He mentions being locked into a specific platform, Kindle doesn't lock publishers in, it just provides another outlet for their material.

They actually do, so far as eBooks are concerned. In many cases they sign exclusive deals with the publishers causing the publisher to delay selling any eBooks in any other outlet or format. I am not sure what Amazon has to give them in order to get the exclusive.

Dale

[exreader]

ah, O'reilly. they invented the web now? sure. here he comes tooting his own publishing horn, formats, and software. he'd LOVE to publish his stuff directly onto Kindle, without Amazon in the way, but really, what kind of business logic is THAT [1]? Amazon wants a cut. duh. they took the risks, they did the research, and they killed (IMHO) Sony in the process, they reap the rewards.

[1] well, he can, right now. he could easily, trivially, being who they are, publish their books as mobipocket. RIGHT NOW. without DRM. and put them on Kindle. sell via O'reilly's own webstore, copy and drag and done. several other publishers do this. why not them? oh, the DRM. O'reilly probably insists on that part these days. too much piracy. can't blame them.

afaik, O'reilly is seriously courting Plastic Logic, as they should, and ePub rules on there, as well as most other formats (like PDF), except afaik, mobi mmm. i sense a slight conflict i'm going to be in the market for a Plastic Logic device, and it would be awesome to have all my PDFs on it, for starters, as well as say, dozens of computer books (i'd even rebuy them if they were updated).

okay, so a long time ago, o'reilly offered some of their books as .html files, on cd-roms. not all, but some. they then shifted to PDF iirc? currently, they have safari bookshelf, with a LOT of their books online. almost all. the format doesn't matter (html, epub) because they (last i checked), REQUIRE you have a net connection. even on a fast computer, with a fast network, that was kinda dorky and slow. no net? no wireless? yah, no books. lose. http://bookworm.oreilly.com/about/ '''Bookworm is an experimental platform for storing and reading ePub-format books online.''' ONLINE. only.

given that amazon controls their data, is not a bad thing. at the time of their launch nearly 2 years ago now, and longer from inception, nobody was offering a useful format, and they adopted modified mobipocket. makes sense. they are planning on offering downloads in a variety of other formats, to target other ereader platforms as well. i can easily see how they will also update Kindle in the future, to support epub (it's just XML, and internal to Kindle is Java/XML/Linux, so ... trivial).

Plastic Logic WILL shake things up a bit. still a closed system IMHO. they'll open up some things to let people get more into the thing (developers), but there will be limits, just like with iPhone (and make no mistake, iPhone is not open). apple totally controls what can legally be put on the things via the app store (which includes books). rip your own mp3s? no problem. just like mobipocketing any convertable document or 1000s on line for free. O'reilly implies strong Amazon is not open to this though.

epub is "open". sure. right to a point. don't get too caught up in all the open source hoopla and love. sometimes it has a way of not working out the way everyone hoped (like those online only requirements). still, it, or something like it, is a good step.

summary: the Kindle is not obscure, will never be obscure as long as Amazon exists as a company, and more importantly, probably won't fail, as long as there's a buck to be made.

exreader

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by Barcey

[SNIP a bunch of good stuff...] With iTunes they were the open alternative that forced Apple to open up iTunes so they have to understand this. [SNIP again]

Actually, that's not the way it went at all. Back at the beginning of the iTunes store, Apple started out trying to get the big record labels to permit no-DRM distribution. The folks at the big labels wouldn't even consider it without DRM. You may recall the Steve Jobs letter on DRM from a year or two ago -- it contains some of this history. Apple did eventually manage to convince one of the four biggest labels to allow DRM-free music at a higher price (it was the smallest of the four, of course).

Later on, with the iTunes store in a relatively dominant position, the labels decided that they would try to change that (that is, build up a competitor) by letting everyone except Apple have DRM-free music. The labels didn't get what they wanted -- Amazon wound up #2 in digital music sales, but are still 10x smaller than the iTunes store. Apple didn't get what they wanted (no more DRM and higher quality... er... less-compressed music). So everyone went back to the negotiating table.

When the dust settled, Apple backed off a little bit on fixed pricing (making the labels happy) and the labels let Apple go DRM-free with higher-bitrate music.

And now lots of people are talking about how Amazon forced Apple to remove DRM...

Xenophon

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

They actually do, so far as eBooks are concerned. In many cases they sign exclusive deals with the publishers causing the publisher to delay selling any eBooks in any other outlet or format. I am not sure what Amazon has to give them in order to get the exclusive.

From what I understand the quid pro quo for exclusivity is Amazon promoting the book at its website. Nothing more. Amazon is exploiting its 800 pounds and trying to become a 1200-pound behemoth.

Sadly, publishers aren't acting in their own best interests, being more concerned with quarterly return (profit) than long-term survival. Smart publishers will resist Amazon because once Amazon becomes the only game in town, it is Amazon that will dictate all terms, assuming there are any publishers left to dictate terms to. Don't lose sight of Amazon's attempts to become a vertical monopoly. Everything that a publisher does to help Amazon will ultimately hurt the publisher.

What will happen, for example, when Borders goes under, leaving only B&N and Amazon as powerhouses? Each will be in a better position to dictate terms to publishers. What will happen should B&N follow Borders to oblivion?

Currently, only Amazon has an ebook strategy so it is the only "1-stop" shop available. Borders' ebook strategy (pairing with Sony) is ludicrous because it is just throwing a brand at a problem, not providing a solution. But where is B&N in this scenario?

I think B&N could give Amazon a run for its money by (a) adopting ePub and (b) making ebooks available in ePub both online and in its stores. I would love to be able to walk into my local B&N with my Sony Reader in hand, browse the shelves, and when I found books I wanted, pick up for each a card that I take to the register. When I pay for the book(s) I have a choice -- I can have the store load the books for me on the spot or do it at my leisure. (Of course, once Sony gets wireless this would be even easier.)

The point is that to fight Amazon publishers and competitors need to be smart and flexible and not simply bury their heads in the sand as they currently are. Alas, I do not see that happening anytime soon.

[igorsk]

Originally Posted by exreader

[1] well, he can, right now. he could easily, trivially, being who they are, publish their books as mobipocket. RIGHT NOW. without DRM. and put them on Kindle. sell via O'reilly's own webstore, copy and drag and done. several other publishers do this. why not them? oh, the DRM. O'reilly probably insists on that part these days. too much piracy. can't blame them.

ORLY? (dumb pun, but I like it)
http://oreilly.com/ebooks/mobi/