Amazon removes books from Kindle?

ylsul · 07-17-2009, 02:24 PM

Have you guys seen this posting by David Pogue?

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...l-than-others/

Sonist · 07-17-2009, 02:34 PM

Wow!

THIS is something entirely new, and kind of disturbing. The publisher changed their mind?!! If this is precedent-setting, I'd never buy another Kindle, just on principle. And, frankly, I hope some hungry attorney's secretary bought the titles, so we can see a class action on this.

And of course, the irony of it:

"... You want to know the best part? The juicy, plump, dripping irony?

The author who was the victim of this Big Brotherish plot was none other than George Orwell. And the books were “1984” and “Animal Farm.”"

Teyrnon · 07-17-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

Wow!

THIS is something entirely new, and kind of disturbing. The publisher changed their mind?!! If this is precedent-setting, I'd never buy another Kindle, just on principle. And, frankly, I hope some hungry attorney's secretary bought the titles, so we can see a class action on this.

It is quite disturbing. Does this mean that any time a publisher can decide to rescind an offering retroactively and *POOF* all instances of it disappear from the devices of legitimate purchasers?

Is it something more to this story or is it really as bad as it looks at this moment?

ahi · 07-17-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teyrnon

It is quite disturbing. Does this mean that any time a publisher can decide to rescind an offering retroactively and *POOF* all instances of it disappear from the devices of legitimate purchasers?

Is it something more to this story or is it really as bad as it looks at this moment?

According to a customer:

Quote:

Here's the response from Amazon CS:

The Kindle edition books Animal Farm by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) & Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984) by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) were removed from the Kindle store and are no longer available for purchase. When this occured, your purchases were automatically refunded. You can still locate the books in the Kindle store, but each has a status of not yet available. Although a rarity, publishers can decide to pull their content from the Kindle store.

- Ahi

lilac_jive · 07-17-2009, 02:50 PM

Was it the publisher that pulled them or were they "illicit" copies?

wallcraft · 07-17-2009, 02:59 PM

I don't see how MobileReference could have permission from the copyright holders to publish Animal Farm, particularly since they were selling this for $0.99. See You really DON’T own your Amazon ebooks.

I have ebooks that I bought in the Kindle Store but are no longer available for sale on my Kindle, and Amazon has not removed them. It is a bit different when the ebooks are bootlegged though, Amazon probably wants to be squeaky clean on copyrights.

ahi · 07-17-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Amazon probably wants to be squeaky clean on copyrights.

Maybe they shouldn't sell materials illegally then...

- Ahi

detayls · 07-17-2009, 03:05 PM

I doubt the books were physically removed if they were on the Kindle. The order for the book and the ability to download it were probably canceled.

People *love* to get hysterical!

ahi · 07-17-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detayls

I doubt the books were physically removed if they were on the Kindle. The order for the book and the ability to download it were probably canceled.

People *love* to get hysterical!

Why do you feel the unilateral reneging of Amazon.com on purchases made months ago is nothing to get upset about?

Belittling the significance of real issues can sometimes be just as satisfying as getting hysterical about them. The happy medium is much to be preferred though.

- Ahi

Sonist · 07-17-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Was it the publisher that pulled them or were they "illicit" copies?

Dunno about this.

The only currently available Kindle copy of 1984 is this one, and it has the following disclaimer:

"This work is in the public domain in Canada, Australia, and other countries. It may still be copyrighted in some countries. The user should determine whether the work is in the public domain in their own country before using it."

Me thinks it's just weird, and this really needs to be clarified soon, presumably by a court somewhere. No different than remotely removing a copy from your PC without permission, IMO (regardless of what Amazon or the publisher may have included on p.724 of their EUA.)

detayls · 07-17-2009, 03:19 PM

Amazon was just the conduit. Someone out there stole these works, repackaged them and offered them for sale over Amazon's site.

This is a very old scenario.

Someone steals something and they sell it to a second individual who then resells it. (Think pawn shop.)

No real title passed so the purchaser was not entitled to keep the item. If the police were involved here and the goods could be recovered, then they would be returned to the rightful owner. The purchaser would get no compensation from the thief.

In this case Amazon was simply being generous by refunding the purchaser's money.

As I said.... don't get hysterical. This sort of thing happens every day everywhere on the planet.

Barcey · 07-17-2009, 03:20 PM

Virtual book burning isn't as satisfying as the real thing. You can't roast marshmallow's.

poohbear_nc · 07-17-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detayls

I doubt the books were physically removed if they were on the Kindle. The order for the book and the ability to download it were probably canceled.

People *love* to get hysterical!

Well - I'm not hysterical - any my copy of the Collected Works of George Orwell is no longer on my Kindle. And I received an email today announcing the refund of my purchase price.
So yes - Amazon is pulling copies off Kindles - as they did earlier for the Ayn Rand bootlegs.

Sonist · 07-17-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detayls

...The purchaser would get no compensation from the thief.

In this case Amazon was simply being generous by refunding the purchaser's money.

As I said.... don't get hysterical....

So, you say that the purchaser is not entitled to compensation, in which case Amazon (the seller) gets to keep their cut of the "fraudulent" sale?! But for Amazon's generosity....

You're just kidding, right?

P.S. I just checked, and it appears that Rosenblum Productions claims the copyright to 1984, at least until 2044 (which is kind of outrageous in itself, IMO). Which makes me wonder, what is the 1984 version I referenced above, doing on Amazon, with that disclaimer?

ylsul · 07-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detayls

I doubt the books were physically removed if they were on the Kindle. The order for the book and the ability to download it were probably canceled.

People *love* to get hysterical!

Actually, the books DID get removed from their Kindles.

07-17-2009, 02:24 PM	#1
ylsul Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 53 Join Date: Mar 2007	Amazon removes books from Kindle? Have you guys seen this posting by David Pogue? http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/...l-than-others/

07-17-2009, 02:34 PM	#2
Sonist Apeist Posts: 2,126 Karma: 381090 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The sunny part of California Device: Generic virtual reality story-experiential device	Wow! THIS is something entirely new, and kind of disturbing. The publisher changed their mind?!! If this is precedent-setting, I'd never buy another Kindle, just on principle. And, frankly, I hope some hungry attorney's secretary bought the titles, so we can see a class action on this. And of course, the irony of it: "... You want to know the best part? The juicy, plump, dripping irony? The author who was the victim of this Big Brotherish plot was none other than George Orwell. And the books were “1984” and “Animal Farm.”" Last edited by Sonist; 07-17-2009 at 02:37 PM.

07-17-2009, 03:19 PM	#11
detayls Addict Posts: 235 Karma: 1355374 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: iPad, iPhone, Kindle Voyage	These books were created and sold illegally... Amazon was just the conduit. Someone out there stole these works, repackaged them and offered them for sale over Amazon's site. This is a very old scenario. Someone steals something and they sell it to a second individual who then resells it. (Think pawn shop.) No real title passed so the purchaser was not entitled to keep the item. If the police were involved here and the goods could be recovered, then they would be returned to the rightful owner. The purchaser would get no compensation from the thief. In this case Amazon was simply being generous by refunding the purchaser's money. As I said.... don't get hysterical. This sort of thing happens every day everywhere on the planet.

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07-17-2009, 02:50 PM	#5
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	Was it the publisher that pulled them or were they "illicit" copies?

07-17-2009, 02:59 PM	#6
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,975 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	I don't see how MobileReference could have permission from the copyright holders to publish Animal Farm, particularly since they were selling this for $0.99. See You really DON’T own your Amazon ebooks. I have ebooks that I bought in the Kindle Store but are no longer available for sale on my Kindle, and Amazon has not removed them. It is a bit different when the ebooks are bootlegged though, Amazon probably wants to be squeaky clean on copyrights.

07-17-2009, 03:05 PM	#8
detayls Addict Posts: 235 Karma: 1355374 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: iPad, iPhone, Kindle Voyage	I doubt the books were physically removed if they were on the Kindle. The order for the book and the ability to download it were probably canceled. People love to get hysterical!

07-17-2009, 03:20 PM	#12
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	Virtual book burning isn't as satisfying as the real thing. You can't roast marshmallow's.