Footnotes in a non-fiction book

Samantha45 · 08-23-2010, 10:23 AM

So the book I'm reading (Packing to Mars by Mary Roach) has footnotes.

Normally those are on the bottom of the page in a paper book.

I understand in an epub they won't be at the "bottom" of a page since the pages can change if you resize the font.

However they are each in their own chapter after the book is done.

Which means I read the passage, notice the star for the footnote and then have to go to the TOC and find the "chapter" that the footnote is in and read it and then go back to the TOC and of course now I've lost my place in the book.

There's gotta be a better way of doing this. I don't really want to wait until I've finished the chapter and then go to the footnotes chapter because by then I've forgotten what the footnote was for.

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 10:42 AM

They are "endnotes" (at the end of the book) rather than "footnotes" (at the bottom of the page).

Is the endnote reference not a hyperlink? That's the normal way they are implemented in an eBook. It's a rather poorly-created eBook if there's no way to get to the note from the text.

taming · 08-23-2010, 10:47 AM

My inelegant solution was to have one copy of the book on my Kobo that had been added with ADE and another that was synced from the Kobo site. One could do the same with an ADE version and one sideloaded with Calibre.

I used one for reading the book, the other for reading the notes. I don't know if Kobo intends to build in support for multiple bookmarks, but it sure would be nice.

Samantha45 · 08-23-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

They are "endnotes" (at the end of the book) rather than "footnotes" (at the bottom of the page).

Is the endnote reference not a hyperlink? That's the normal way they are implemented in an eBook. It's a rather poorly-created eBook if there's no way to get to the note from the text.

Nope. And in the actual book they are footnotes.

How would you use the hyperlink in a Kobo anyhow?

Samantha45 · 08-23-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

My inelegant solution was to have one copy of the book on my Kobo that had been added with ADE and another that was synced from the Kobo site. One could do the same with an ADE version and one sideloaded with Calibre.

I used one for reading the book, the other for reading the notes. I don't know if Kobo intends to build in support for multiple bookmarks, but it sure would be nice.

oooooh that would work! I bought it from Kobo so I'll just add one from ADE. Thanks! That will work!

I think this is the thing that will push me to a Kindle. At least on that ereader you can add bookmarks so I could flip ahead and then find the page I was at. I read a lot of non-fiction and this isn't the only book that will have that issue I'm sure.

Thanks so much!

HarryT · 08-23-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samantha45

Nope. And in the actual book they are footnotes.

How would you use the hyperlink in a Kobo anyhow?

How would you normally select a hyperlink in an eBook on the Kobo? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Kobo, so I don't know how that particular device does it, but it would be an extremely poor reader that doesn't support hyperlinks - they are pretty essential!

Perhaps someone else can offer advice on this?

Samantha45 · 08-23-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

How would you normally select a hyperlink in an eBook on the Kobo?

you can't. There isn't a keyboard.

At least as far as I know you can't.

taming · 08-23-2010, 11:17 AM

It's not a pretty poor reader. It was designed to read ePUB and PDF files and nothing else--no dictionary, no touch screen, no WiFi or 3G connectivity. At release, it was the cheapest reader on the market and some would say it was part of the reason prices for others have dropped so much lately. It will definitely be interesting to see where the price point is during the run up to xmas.

dmacmart · 08-23-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

My inelegant solution was to have one copy of the book on my Kobo that had been added with ADE and another that was synced from the Kobo site. One could do the same with an ADE version and one sideloaded with Calibre.

I did something similar when there were many images in a book - I had it on my iPhone to see the pictures, and read it on my Kobo.

shall1028 · 08-23-2010, 02:45 PM

Footnotes and endnotes work well in a printed physical book but are sub-optimal in an electronic publication. Slavish devotion to mimicking what works in physical books is misguided in an e-book. Rethinking presentation of "footnotes" and "endnotes" are in order.

There is an interesting article on converting sidebars into something e-book friendly. That might be a good starting point.

HarryT · 08-24-2010, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

It's not a pretty poor reader. It was designed to read ePUB and PDF files and nothing else--no dictionary, no touch screen, no WiFi or 3G connectivity.

Yes, I appreciate that, but I still maintain, I'm afraid, that an e-book reader that cannot follow hyperlinks is a poor reader. Many books contain internal hyperlinks; they are the standard method of jumping to (and back from, of course) endnotes, to give but one example of their usage. There is certainly no other ePub reader on the market that I am aware of that does not support them.

taming · 08-24-2010, 07:09 AM

Impressive list of ebook readers appearing under your name, Harry, including the $299 BeBook Neo, the amazingly expensive (for me at least) iPad,, and the PRS-600 (first Sony with a touch screen and $100 more than the Kobo when I made my purchase).

I have no intention of getting into some sort of weird contest with you, but I am quite sure that most people, yourself included, bought the reader with the features that were most important to them, at the price point they were looking for.

YMMV. Heck mine probably will change over time, too.

HarryT · 08-24-2010, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

I have no intention of getting into some sort of weird contest with you, but I am quite sure that most people, yourself included, bought the reader with the features that were most important to them, at the price point they were looking for.

Of course, but I honestly don't see that it would have made the Kobo 1 cent more expensive to allow it to follow internal hyperlinks in an ePub book, as every other reader on the market is able to do, given that this is a standard feature of the ADE firmware which the Kobo uses.

taming · 08-24-2010, 07:41 AM

Can that be done without a touchscreen or keyboard? I have never tried the Kobo app for touchscreen phones or the iPAD etc, but I assume that hyperlinks are supported there.

HarryT · 08-24-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taming

Can that be done without a touchscreen or keyboard? I have never tried the Kobo app for touchscreen phones or the iPAD etc, but I assume that hyperlinks are supported there.

Sure. I see from a picture that the Kobo has what looks like a standard 4-way navigation control with a central button. On most readers with similar controls (CyBook, Pocketbook, etc) one simply uses the navigation control to highlight the desired link on a page, and then presses the centre button to activate it.

If the Kobo doesn't support this feature now, hopefully it will be added in a future firmware update. It is a completely standard feature of ADE, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

08-23-2010, 10:23 AM	#1
Samantha45 Connoisseur Posts: 58 Karma: 43456 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Edmonton AB Canada Device: Kobo, Kindle 3	Footnotes in a non-fiction book So the book I'm reading (Packing to Mars by Mary Roach) has footnotes. Normally those are on the bottom of the page in a paper book. I understand in an epub they won't be at the "bottom" of a page since the pages can change if you resize the font. However they are each in their own chapter after the book is done. Which means I read the passage, notice the star for the footnote and then have to go to the TOC and find the "chapter" that the footnote is in and read it and then go back to the TOC and of course now I've lost my place in the book. There's gotta be a better way of doing this. I don't really want to wait until I've finished the chapter and then go to the footnotes chapter because by then I've forgotten what the footnote was for.

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08-23-2010, 10:42 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	They are "endnotes" (at the end of the book) rather than "footnotes" (at the bottom of the page). Is the endnote reference not a hyperlink? That's the normal way they are implemented in an eBook. It's a rather poorly-created eBook if there's no way to get to the note from the text.

08-23-2010, 10:47 AM	#3
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	My inelegant solution was to have one copy of the book on my Kobo that had been added with ADE and another that was synced from the Kobo site. One could do the same with an ADE version and one sideloaded with Calibre. I used one for reading the book, the other for reading the notes. I don't know if Kobo intends to build in support for multiple bookmarks, but it sure would be nice.

08-23-2010, 11:17 AM	#8
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	It's not a pretty poor reader. It was designed to read ePUB and PDF files and nothing else--no dictionary, no touch screen, no WiFi or 3G connectivity. At release, it was the cheapest reader on the market and some would say it was part of the reason prices for others have dropped so much lately. It will definitely be interesting to see where the price point is during the run up to xmas.

08-23-2010, 02:45 PM	#10
shall1028 Nameless Being	Footnotes and endnotes work well in a printed physical book but are sub-optimal in an electronic publication. Slavish devotion to mimicking what works in physical books is misguided in an e-book. Rethinking presentation of "footnotes" and "endnotes" are in order. There is an interesting article on converting sidebars into something e-book friendly. That might be a good starting point.

08-24-2010, 07:09 AM	#12
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	Impressive list of ebook readers appearing under your name, Harry, including the $299 BeBook Neo, the amazingly expensive (for me at least) iPad,, and the PRS-600 (first Sony with a touch screen and $100 more than the Kobo when I made my purchase). I have no intention of getting into some sort of weird contest with you, but I am quite sure that most people, yourself included, bought the reader with the features that were most important to them, at the price point they were looking for. YMMV. Heck mine probably will change over time, too.

08-24-2010, 07:41 AM	#14
taming Trying for calm & polite Posts: 4,012 Karma: 9455193 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mostly in Canada Device: kobo original, WiFI, Touch, Glo, and Aura	Can that be done without a touchscreen or keyboard? I have never tried the Kobo app for touchscreen phones or the iPAD etc, but I assume that hyperlinks are supported there.