Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-17-2012, 07:42 PM   #136
Giggleton
Banned
Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,687
Karma: 4368191
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oregon
Device: Kindle3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
What are laws but words on a page?
Well we have natural laws, such as the natural right to read whatever we can.
Giggleton is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:17 AM   #137
JoeD
Guru
JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 895
Karma: 4383958
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: na
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
Well we have natural laws, such as the natural right to read whatever we can.
I'm not sure what you mean by natural? But the right to read is restricted in some countries or for certain content and that restriction is in turn governed by laws.

Laws much like national borders are what people want them to be and are willing to fight over them been and with laws much like national borders not everyone gets what they want.

Whilst they may be a line on a map or words on a page, that's not all they are or mean.
JoeD is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 08:23 AM   #138
Giggleton
Banned
Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Giggleton ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,687
Karma: 4368191
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oregon
Device: Kindle3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by natural? But the right to read is restricted in some countries or for certain content and that restriction is in turn governed by laws.

Laws much like national borders are what people want them to be and are willing to fight over them been and with laws much like national borders not everyone gets what they want.

Whilst they may be a line on a map or words on a page, that's not all they are or mean.
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
Giggleton is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 09:59 AM   #139
JoeD
Guru
JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JoeD ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 895
Karma: 4383958
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: na
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
That's what laws are based on in general though aren't they? It's just that what feels right for some doesn't feel right for others. So we end up with a point where a group has to decide which right is going to be considered right for everyone.

It's not possible for everyone to do what they feel is right because everyone's idea of right and wrong does not always mesh (see any news site for examples :P)
JoeD is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:50 AM   #140
K. Molen
Addict
K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
K. Molen's Avatar
 
Posts: 284
Karma: 4478866
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Device: Kindle 3, iPad 3, Nexus 10, Nexus 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
Damn straight it does. No one but me have the right to read my journal, for example.
K. Molen is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #141
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,452
Karma: 7185064
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Molen View Post
Damn straight it does. No one but me have the right to read my journal, for example.
A journal is not published so is not a counter example here.
tompe is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #142
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,544
Karma: 93383043
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
A journal is not published so is not a counter example here.
It is, though, a perfectly valid example of the importance of copyright. One of the often-overlooked aspects of copyright law is the right to keep private things private by choosing not to publish them that it grants.
HarryT is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:10 PM   #143
tompe
Grand Sorcerer
tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tompe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,452
Karma: 7185064
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Linköpng, Sweden
Device: Kindle Voyage, Nexus 5, Kindle PW
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
It is, though, a perfectly valid example of the importance of copyright. One of the often-overlooked aspects of copyright law is the right to keep private things private by choosing not to publish them that it grants.
Well if you do not publish it is private. I do not believe you can give a reasonable scenario were copyright laws help keep things private.
tompe is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:14 PM   #144
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,725
Karma: 19728152
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Note 4, Kobo One
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
Well if you do not publish it is private. I do not believe you can give a reasonable scenario were copyright laws help keep things private.
It is what stops someone who has accessed your private documents publishing them.
murraypaul is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:21 PM   #145
BeccaPrice
Wizard
BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BeccaPrice ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
BeccaPrice's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,145
Karma: 11174187
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Sony 350, K3-3G, K4SO, KPW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
I'm sure that, to someone who wants to restrict your rights to read certain books, it just feels wrong to let someone read anything they want.

Certainly this isn't limited to totalitarian governments. I know some very religous people who feel that it's simply *wrong* to want to read certain books (and are appalled at my letting my kids read whatever they want, instead of "guiding" them.)
BeccaPrice is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:53 PM   #146
Jozawun
Fanatic
Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jozawun ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jozawun's Avatar
 
Posts: 519
Karma: 2693434
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Device: Cybook Gen 3, Pocketbook 902, Sony 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
It is, though, a perfectly valid example of the importance of copyright. One of the often-overlooked aspects of copyright law is the right to keep private things private by choosing not to publish them that it grants.
This, of course, makes irrelevant the most prominent of the justifications for copyright's restrictions on the dissemination of knowledge; namely that it promotes the creation of new works (and hence enhances the store of human knowledge) by giving authors the profit from them.
Jozawun is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #147
K. Molen
Addict
K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.K. Molen ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
K. Molen's Avatar
 
Posts: 284
Karma: 4478866
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Device: Kindle 3, iPad 3, Nexus 10, Nexus 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
A journal is not published so is not a counter example here.
Of course you are right that my example was slightly absurd, but Giggleton didn't say anything about the material having to have been published ("...the natural right to read whatever we can." - embhasis mine) and from what I've read of his writings here I wouldn't put it past him at all to be of the opinion that anything written down should be something anyone can read.
K. Molen is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:59 PM   #148
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,812
Karma: 26912940
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
I can see an instance where allowing someone to read what they want instantly for free (author's rights aside) could be harmful.

Someone wants to read the latest James Patterson perhaps. One assumes they have read all the other James Patterson books either second hand or through the library and will not read anything but James Patterson to make this an urgent need and do not have any cash. Is it good for them to restrict their reading this way and if they do get and read the book, what then? A great wailing and gnashing of teeth until the next book is released? What will they do.

Reading choices have always been restricted to what is available and/or affordable. Most fiction books (not all) are available to anyone in most democratic countries for little or no cost. Maybe they have to read the paper book, but not many have died from that. Millions of people have read paper books for years without any significant loss of freedom or brain damage, maybe a few cases of eyestrain from over-reading, but probably no worse than over-reading ebooks.


The truly destitute, those who cannot read even if literate, as they are too cold and hungry to concentrate on anything else are much more deserving of your attention than those who have devices capable of reading ebooks. Maybe they and yourself are very poor by your standards, but if they can worry about reading exactly what they want, they aren't by mine.

Helen
speakingtohe is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 04:10 PM   #149
Kolenka
<Insert Wit Here>
Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kolenka ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kolenka's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,017
Karma: 1275899
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Device: Kindle Oasis, Kobo Forma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozawun View Post
This, of course, makes irrelevant the most prominent of the justifications for copyright's restrictions on the dissemination of knowledge; namely that it promotes the creation of new works (and hence enhances the store of human knowledge) by giving authors the profit from them.
Not really.

The right to not publish a work is more of a side-effect (possibly an important one) of copyright. And I suppose you can use copyright to defend your journal, but there are other laws that help protect privacy.

Your point I think is the key one. Copyright is a time-limited monopoly on a work as enticement to publish and make it available to read. The monopoly allows the author to profit from the work so that they can do two things:

1) Get rewarded for the work done.
2) Possibly make a career out of fields that produce work like this (books, art, software, etc).

The catch is that the work needs to enrich the public domain at some point. And I think this is where copyright has failed to deliver on the original promise. The monopoly is not very time-limited anymore, and if you "hit it big", residuals in some industries are big enough to set you up for life as long as you can keep profiting off of it.

And Giggleton's point about natural laws may be somewhat valid, but it is difficult to reconcile a capitalist economy with "everything creative is public domain". The end result is that you actually disincentive creation of works if the idea that anything I create is automatically the public's the moment I publish it. Mostly because I'm trading the opportunity cost of things such as home and shelter doing work that I can pull an income from, versus something where I may only ever get paid for the first copy, and depends completely on how honor-bound people are to compensating me for the effort it took to create that work. Copyright's intent is to try to compromise between a money economy and enriching the society through works.
Kolenka is offline  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:40 PM   #150
Laridae
Addict
Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Laridae ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Laridae's Avatar
 
Posts: 208
Karma: 1203096
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Device: Nexus 7, Blackberry PlayBook, Nexus 4, ChromeBook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggleton View Post
By natural I mean it just feels right. Does restricting someone's choice of reading material feel right to you??
Yes, it does.
There is a name for a lawless society; it's called "anarchy".

Or, as someone once said "Your rights stop where my nose begins"
Laridae is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Government Supreme Court Decision regarding the Affordable Care Act Dulin's Books Other Books 0 06-30-2012 03:09 PM
US Supreme Court mentions Kindle Madam Broshkina Amazon Kindle 9 03-26-2009 10:30 AM
Supreme Court Rules Against Grokster Bob Russell Lounge 2 06-28-2005 01:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:08 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.