Reviewing Sigil edits in Reader software

dynabook · 07-16-2012, 03:45 PM

After making changes in an epub and deciding it is finished, the acid test is to read it in the Reader software to make sure everything looks good.

I bought an epub (from B&N for the first time) which did not have DRM and as I normally do when the formatting is not as I like it, I edited the epub, and especially the CSS, to get paragraph spacing and indentation as desired.

The epub looks great in Sigil BV but once I import it into either Adobe Digital Editions or Reader software, the epub looks like the CSS has no effect and the defaults are being used.

I have compared this epub to numerous others I have changed and cannot see a difference which would cause this. Any ideas? Or questions which might get me on the right track.
--MH

theducks · 07-16-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynabook

After making changes in an epub and deciding it is finished, the acid test is to read it in the Reader software to make sure everything looks good.

I bought an epub (from B&N for the first time) which did not have DRM and as I normally do when the formatting is not as I like it, I edited the epub, and especially the CSS, to get paragraph spacing and indentation as desired.

The epub looks great in Sigil BV but once I import it into either Adobe Digital Editions or Reader software, the epub looks like the CSS has no effect and the defaults are being used.

I have compared this epub to numerous others I have changed and cannot see a difference which would cause this. Any ideas? Or questions which might get me on the right track.
--MH

1 tiny typo in the CSS and Adobe ignores all or that part.
Use the w3c CSS Validatior

st_albert · 07-16-2012, 04:06 PM

If ADE is ignoring the style sheet, it probably means there's an error somewhwere in the CSS. You can check it here.

Whereas Sigil and some readers are more tolerant of CSS errors, ADE will disregard the entire CSS file if contains so much as a single misplaced semicolon.

And many stand-alone readers are based on the ADE engine.

Oops. Theducks beat me to it.

DiapDealer · 07-16-2012, 06:05 PM

I would agree with what everyone has mentioned about a typo in the CSS somewhere.

But I also wanted to caution you about giving "epub looks great in Sigil BV" very much significance in the first place. It's alright for getting a ballpark idea that things are generally the way you want them, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time fine-tuning/tweaking layouts in Sigil's Book View. Only because it's using a renderer that most dedicated eReaders simply don't use.

I'm pretty sure that in this case (like the others have mentioned), the differences are due to the fact that there's an error causing ADE to abandon your CSS, but I assure you the opposite can happen, too. You can have an ePub that renders fine (correctly) in ADE, but not in Sigil's Book View. ADE is still the measuring stick to go by, in those instances—in my opinion.

theducks · 07-16-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I would agree with what everyone has mentioned about a typo in the CSS somewhere.

But I also wanted to caution you about giving "epub looks great in Sigil BV" very much significance in the first place. It's alright for getting a ballpark idea that things are generally the way you want them, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time fine-tuning/tweaking layouts in Sigil's Book View. Only because it's using a renderer that most dedicated eReaders simply don't use.

I'm pretty sure that in this case (like the others have mentioned), the differences are due to the fact that there's an error causing ADE to abandon your CSS, but I assure you the opposite can happen, too. You can have an ePub that renders fine (correctly) in ADE, but not in Sigil's Book View. ADE is still the measuring stick to go by, in those instances—in my opinion.

Great point.
There are valid things that Sigil displays properly that ADE trips over itself on. Learning to code around these is a good thing (see the ADE thread in EPUB forum)
Simple example: a 50% HR is supposed to auto center

(sigil show it there)

What you have to do in ADE is ALSO make the Left Margin 25% to put it in the correct place.

dynabook · 07-16-2012, 07:07 PM

Thanks. The W3C CSS validator found that missing semicolon.
--MH

theducks · 07-16-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynabook

Thanks. The W3C CSS validator found that missing semicolon.
--MH

They are are hard to spot sometimes, especially when you have a colon vs semi-colon

dynabook · 07-17-2012, 09:12 AM

I am not for loading Sigil down with unnecessary features but some sort of minimal CSS checking would be great. Although this was caused but a cut-and-paste operation, these kind of things are easy for the computer, hard for the eyes.
--MH

mrmikel · 07-17-2012, 10:31 AM

Among a myriad of other things, css checking was discussed as being part of a potential future plug in setup, for the exact reason you stated, so as to not load down Sigil. Right now they are trying to make Solomonic decisions about how to cut Gordian knot for the .6 version!

Leverpullr · 07-17-2012, 11:24 PM

I agree..previewing in other readers/emulators is never a perfect experience. On my first conversion from Mobi to EPUB (more of a start over truthfully..) I was very surprised to see the numerous 'issues' ADE had with what should have been a well formed EPUB. Then comparing that to using an actual iPad via their previewer software was quite an eye opener.

I recommend to use ADE but become familiar with its bugs or should I say 'undocumented features'. Coming from Kindle production I knew that the Kindle for PC was not to be trusted as it was way buggier than the actual devices when it came to as designed feature set display on the Kindle. I am pleased though with how well the NOOK for PC application accurately displays EPUB and use it as one of my main pre-release quality assurance checks.

Toxaris · 07-18-2012, 03:00 AM

Please be aware that ADE does have some bugs, but it is not that dramatically. It is much better than iBooks and all other web-browser based programs. Those programs all consider ePUB as a collection of webpages. It isn't. Not everything in the XHTML and CSS stack is supported in ePUB2. That is not a limitation of ADE, but a design decision of the IDPF.
In fact, iBooks has much, much more quirks than ADE.

Also, conversions are NEVER 100%. Always expect rework, it all depends on the source. If it works in ADE, it usually works on almost all readers.

Hitch · 07-18-2012, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxaris

Please be aware that ADE does have some bugs, but it is not that dramatically. It is much better than iBooks and all other web-browser based programs. Those programs all consider ePUB as a collection of webpages. It isn't. Not everything in the XHTML and CSS stack is supported in ePUB2. That is not a limitation of ADE, but a design decision of the IDPF.
In fact, iBooks has much, much more quirks than ADE.

Also, conversions are NEVER 100%. Always expect rework, it all depends on the source. If it works in ADE, it usually works on almost all readers.

AMEN, brother.

Hitch

07-16-2012, 03:45 PM	#1
dynabook Techno-geek Posts: 225 Karma: 1116651 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: PRS-T1 (Black), PRS-T3S (Black), Kobo Aura ONE	Reviewing Sigil edits in Reader software After making changes in an epub and deciding it is finished, the acid test is to read it in the Reader software to make sure everything looks good. I bought an epub (from B&N for the first time) which did not have DRM and as I normally do when the formatting is not as I like it, I edited the epub, and especially the CSS, to get paragraph spacing and indentation as desired. The epub looks great in Sigil BV but once I import it into either Adobe Digital Editions or Reader software, the epub looks like the CSS has no effect and the defaults are being used. I have compared this epub to numerous others I have changed and cannot see a difference which would cause this. Any ideas? Or questions which might get me on the right track. --MH Last edited by dynabook; 07-16-2012 at 03:46 PM. Reason: word correction

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07-16-2012, 04:06 PM	#3
st_albert Guru Posts: 696 Karma: 150000 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: none	If ADE is ignoring the style sheet, it probably means there's an error somewhwere in the CSS. You can check it here. Whereas Sigil and some readers are more tolerant of CSS errors, ADE will disregard the entire CSS file if contains so much as a single misplaced semicolon. And many stand-alone readers are based on the ADE engine. Oops. Theducks beat me to it.

07-16-2012, 06:05 PM	#4
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,549 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I would agree with what everyone has mentioned about a typo in the CSS somewhere. But I also wanted to caution you about giving "epub looks great in Sigil BV" very much significance in the first place. It's alright for getting a ballpark idea that things are generally the way you want them, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time fine-tuning/tweaking layouts in Sigil's Book View. Only because it's using a renderer that most dedicated eReaders simply don't use. I'm pretty sure that in this case (like the others have mentioned), the differences are due to the fact that there's an error causing ADE to abandon your CSS, but I assure you the opposite can happen, too. You can have an ePub that renders fine (correctly) in ADE, but not in Sigil's Book View. ADE is still the measuring stick to go by, in those instances—in my opinion.

07-16-2012, 07:07 PM	#6
dynabook Techno-geek Posts: 225 Karma: 1116651 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: PRS-T1 (Black), PRS-T3S (Black), Kobo Aura ONE	Thanks. The W3C CSS validator found that missing semicolon. --MH

07-17-2012, 09:12 AM	#8
dynabook Techno-geek Posts: 225 Karma: 1116651 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: PRS-T1 (Black), PRS-T3S (Black), Kobo Aura ONE	I am not for loading Sigil down with unnecessary features but some sort of minimal CSS checking would be great. Although this was caused but a cut-and-paste operation, these kind of things are easy for the computer, hard for the eyes. --MH

07-17-2012, 10:31 AM	#9
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	Among a myriad of other things, css checking was discussed as being part of a potential future plug in setup, for the exact reason you stated, so as to not load down Sigil. Right now they are trying to make Solomonic decisions about how to cut Gordian knot for the .6 version!

07-17-2012, 11:24 PM	#10
Leverpullr Member Posts: 17 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Left Coast Device: Kindle/generic android tablet	I agree..previewing in other readers/emulators is never a perfect experience. On my first conversion from Mobi to EPUB (more of a start over truthfully..) I was very surprised to see the numerous 'issues' ADE had with what should have been a well formed EPUB. Then comparing that to using an actual iPad via their previewer software was quite an eye opener. I recommend to use ADE but become familiar with its bugs or should I say 'undocumented features'. Coming from Kindle production I knew that the Kindle for PC was not to be trusted as it was way buggier than the actual devices when it came to as designed feature set display on the Kindle. I am pleased though with how well the NOOK for PC application accurately displays EPUB and use it as one of my main pre-release quality assurance checks.

07-18-2012, 03:00 AM	#11
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	Please be aware that ADE does have some bugs, but it is not that dramatically. It is much better than iBooks and all other web-browser based programs. Those programs all consider ePUB as a collection of webpages. It isn't. Not everything in the XHTML and CSS stack is supported in ePUB2. That is not a limitation of ADE, but a design decision of the IDPF. In fact, iBooks has much, much more quirks than ADE. Also, conversions are NEVER 100%. Always expect rework, it all depends on the source. If it works in ADE, it usually works on almost all readers.

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