Sigil-0.9.5 Released

[exaltedwombat]

Didn't mean to be passive. Sorry. :-)

[bookman156]

On semantics, I notice that an EPUB when 'Text' is tagged will open there in the Kindle Previewer. I didn't want this so removed it to see whether it would open on 'Cover' now and was surprised to see that instead it opens on 'Preface', which actually is pretty good. So best not to tag 'Text' unless you definitely want it to open there. But from my point of view it would be pointless to bypass the preface if there is one.

[exaltedwombat]

Originally Posted by bookman156

On semantics, I notice that an EPUB when 'Text' is tagged will open there in the Kindle Previewer. I didn't want this so removed it to see whether it would open on 'Cover' now and was surprised to see that instead it opens on 'Preface', which actually is pretty good. So best not to tag 'Text' unless you definitely want it to open there. But from my point of view it would be pointless to bypass the preface if there is one.

Was Preface the first file after the Cover? If there were other files, did they have any semantic attached?

[bookman156]

Originally Posted by exaltedwombat

Was Preface the first file after the Cover? If there were other files, did they have any semantic attached?

I used all the semantics in Sigil available that were relevant except Text. Preface wasn't the first file after the cover, before that Copyright, Dedication and TOC were tagged, so Kindle Previewer decided for itself that Preface was where it should open. I guess if you want it to open at Cover then you shouldn't tag much else, although I can't see it opening at Notes or Bibliography or Glossary.

It's a pity though that you can't use Text without it opening there, as it would be useful to have a Kindle link to the start of the main text in its own semantics derived menu. It makes that menu incomplete. There should be a way of defining 'open' separate to these semantic tags. It seems pretty stupid to favour a Text tag over a Preface tag.

I am assuming that the Kindle Previewer is a fairly reliable guide to how things work on the Kindle, but I don't know. Certainly none of the EPUB readers I have on a laptop pay any attention to semantics so I presume they are being added mainly for the Kindle, or future EPUB readers.

I haven't been able to find any information on semantic hierarchy in the Kindle. I only have what I can deduce, which may change tomorrow. I may just get rid of all semantic tags but Cover and TOC. Don't see much point supporting a technology I am in the dark about.

[DiapDealer]

Keep in mind that defining a start point in an epub (via the Text semantic) for kindlegen to then use has been a hot-topic for a long time. How it works on the locally produced Kindlebook is often not the same as how it works on the retail Kindlebook (after buying). They seem to reserve the right to "start where they see fit." Plenty of food for thought if you search for kindlebooks and start points.

[bookman156]

Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I don't see what is wrong with an ebook opening at the cover, since that is the first thing you see in an actual book. Then if you're the kind of person who never reads prefaces then you can skip ahead as usual.

[bookman156]

It strikes me on the evidence of Kindle Previewer that semantic tags are merely being used to generate a duplicate but lesser version of the TOC. Unless you just want to use 'Text' to get it to open somewhere, if you're lucky, I don't really see that they serve much purpose at present and are actually distracting from the much more extensive and complete TOC.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by bookman156

Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I don't see what is wrong with an ebook opening at the cover, since that is the first thing you see in an actual book. Then if you're the kind of person who never reads prefaces then you can skip ahead as usual.

I don't disagree, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for the kindle platform.

[bookman156]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't disagree, but it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for the kindle platform.

Well, I've now removed all semantics except Cover and TOC, and it still opens at the Preface in Kindle Previewer, which is odd. But at least the partial semantics menu is gone.

[bookman156]

Under 'Book Information' in Kindle Previewer it says that Cover and TOC are 'specified' but 'Start Reading' is 'not specified'. So, if 'Text' is indeed meant to specify that, as opposed to being the actual start of the main text, that implies I could tag the Index as 'Text' and it would open there. So I have tried it, and indeed the book opens at the Index and 'Book Information' now says 'Start Reading' is 'specified'. So much for semantics...

[theducks]

Originally Posted by bookman156

Under 'Book Information' in Kindle Previewer it says that Cover and TOC are 'specified' but 'Start Reading' is 'not specified'. So, if 'Text' is indeed meant to specify that, as opposed to being the actual start of the main text, that implies I could tag the Index as 'Text' and it would open there. So I have tried it, and indeed the book opens at the Index and 'Book Information' now says 'Start Reading' is 'specified'. So much for semantics...

IMHO you are asking for trouble playing games with Amazons rules.

The Gorilla says do it this-a-way. You say: YES SIR!, if you want to sell using their services.

I have been reading your many posts and I come to the conclusion you are fighting the system. There are years of experience here at MR to help you work with the system, and even side step some of the quirks.

[bookman156]

Originally Posted by theducks

IMHO you are asking for trouble playing games with Amazons rules.

The Gorilla says do it this-a-way. You say: YES SIR!, if you want to sell using their services.

I have been reading your many posts and I come to the conclusion you are fighting the system. There are years of experience here at MR to help you work with the system, and even side step some of the quirks.

Nah, I'm not fighting the system, I'm trying to understand it to see whether I need to fight it. Personally, I have no time for Kindle. But I like EPUB. If I don't understand how something works, I experiment with it. But if I want it to work the way they get it to work, then it is pointless fighting it, I have to conform.

[jugaor]

Hi.
I've noticed that the ampersand sign is deleted when the Metadata editor is used. It happens with any field (as creator or contributor).
Ex.:
< dc:creator opf:role="aut" opf:file-as="Otero, Manuel &amp; Flores, Dolores" >Manuel Otero &amp; Dolores Flores< /dc:creator >
< dc:contributor opf:file-as="Montiel, Sara &amp; Blanes, Camilo" opf:role="trl" >Sara Montiel &amp; Camilo Blanes< /dc:contributor >

I prefer to use this form for both authors appear together in a single line (otherwise ADE and other display only the first one; Nook, the last one, IIRC).

It doesn't happen if the epub is opened and saved: only when the editor Metadata is used.

TIA.

[KevinH]

Yes "&" is a reserved character in xml like the content.opf. It therefore needs to be escaped and Sigil does that for the main entries.

But using an "&" in the opf:file-as attribute is what triggers the bug in Sigil. If you remove the "&" in opf:file-as and replace it with another character to indicate concatenation (such as a ";") all will work just fine.

When multiple authors are used in one file-as, the file-as attribute is typically set to using the lead authors name in last, first order (effectively you can not file it under both names with one entry but you can file it under a concatenated string).

I have now updated the code in Sigil so that using an "&" in the opf:file-as (or any attribute) will properly escape the "&" and allow things to work. The bug fix will appear in the next release of Sigil. As a workaround until then, please replace your "&" in opf:file-as with a ";" or any other non-xml special character. This will prevent the bug from striking until the new release comes out.

Thanks for your bug report!

KevinH

Originally Posted by jugaor

Hi.
I've noticed that the ampersand sign is deleted when the Metadata editor is used. It happens with any field (as creator or contributor).
Ex.:
< dc:creator opf:role="aut" opf:file-as="Otero, Manuel &amp; Flores, Dolores" >Manuel Otero &amp; Dolores Flores< /dc:creator >
< dc:contributor opf:file-as="Montiel, Sara &amp; Blanes, Camilo" opf:role="trl" >Sara Montiel &amp; Camilo Blanes< /dc:contributor >

I prefer to use this form for both authors appear together in a single line (otherwise ADE and other display only the first one; Nook, the last one, IIRC).

It doesn't happen if the epub is opened and saved: only when the editor Metadata is used.

TIA.

[Notjohn]

Originally Posted by bookman156

Well, I've now removed all semantics except Cover and TOC, and it still opens at the Preface in Kindle Previewer, which is odd. But at least the partial semantics menu is gone.

As others have pointed out, what you do in the building and previewing stages is of little moment, since it appears that the Start Reading Location is set in the actual publishing workflow, after you have surrendered control over the book.

Amazon seems to want the book to open with the first page of Chapter One (in part, I suppose, to cut their costs in paying for pages read through Kindle Unlimited), skipping all preliminaries including the preface and foreword if any. Setting a SRL (or "text" in the case of a Sigil-built epub) may only serve to confuse matters.

I recently had this experience: I uploaded a new book with no SRL declaration, and the purchased copy opened at one place (I forget now which place that was). However, I spotted some typos, fixed them, and uploaded a new version. When the modified version was "pushed" to my Kindle archives by the support guy, behold! -- the book opened at a different place.

I agree with you that a book should start with the cover, and I am pleased that this is the case with the Look Inside sample. I wish I could similarly get my published books to start there (I actually managed that, one time, but at the cost of having two covers!). But since I can't seem to manage that, at least not on a consistent basis, I no longer worry about it.