Question about ordering merged book chapters

Wiebenor · 03-19-2022, 01:36 AM

This question may sound stupid, but here's some background information on my question, before I ask it, that may help you all understand what I'm looking to do... I am not sure if anyone has ever done something like this, or needed to, but I have a fanfiction book that already has 71 chapters that someone authored, plus there's a "book" that comes after it, that took place in the middle of the first book, that has 15 chapters.

What my question is, is this, I need to insert the 15 chapters of the other "book" in between chapter 53 and 54 of the bigger book, and I am looking for the best way to do it, like for instance, do I create a sub book, or label different parts or arcs, to keep the chapter labels the same(eg 1-15) or would it be better to rename all the chapters, or what is the PROPER book writing technique that one would apply in this situation.

The story I downloaded, in essence, at the end chapter 53, involves students starting to go home on Christmas break, then at the start of 54, they are, I guess, magically back at their school, and there's a few weeks of Christmas break storyline that should be in between, that are, by the author, created later and added as a separate story, to keep the book somewhat more focused on the plot, but honestly, the book in question is a bit of a cliffhanger where that's concerned, and for my personal copy I'd rather have that built into the main story, so as to keep the small works of a few books I have, in their proper order without having to timejump to the past in a "future" book, that isn't treated like, or written like a future story...

I don't know if any of that made any sense, or if there's a way to take a merged book and easily rearrange stuff properly, and to even do THAT, I would have to know something about book writing terminology, I think, to know what kind of chapter or part demarcation I would need, so any help with all these questions would be appreciated, greatly, and I hope someone at least, isn't as confused as I am, or at least can understand that it is I'm looking to do, because, I can slightly edit the end and start of the bookending book chapters, so the "other book" looks like it was always supposed to be right there, as opposed to something like an addendum, or similar

theducks · 03-19-2022, 10:27 AM

Since you already posted in the Calibre Editor sub-forum.
you could just Move the files placement order (up or down)in the File Browser (a window in the Editor).
Just drag the highlighted piece to its proper (order) place.

This assumes

you did not use the term MERGE to mean make a huge section file in the book out of each (FF) piece you added (inserted into the book)There is absolutely no reason for EPUB/AZW* files to be made from a single huge file (inside). The Editor S&R scope setting can determine what files are operated upon). If you did make a huge file out of piece, ask if you need help using the Editors (not to be confused with the plugin the splits books) Split function

The TOC editor tool, allows the TOC to adjusted any order / indent you see fit

retiredbiker · 03-19-2022, 11:16 AM

Assuming, as theducks said, that each chapter is its own file, and assuming that you have the books in epub or azw3, what I would do is:

1. Take the 15-chapter sub-book, open in editor, and highlight the 15 chapter files, then export them (right-click the selection, then export).

2. Open the main big book, and Menu-->File-->Import files into book. Point to your 15 exported files.

3. Drag the files from the bottom of the list, where they will appear, to where you want them among the original chapters.

4. Check that they look OK in the preview. If they don't, the books probably have different styling, css, etc. You can fix that, maybe import the smaller book's css file. This could be no problem or a big deal, depending on the books.

5. Use the ToC editor to do whatever you want with the new files in the ToC. Add them to the ToC and call them whatever you like.

(If the chapters are not in single files, your best bet is to split them up to make it so before you start. Or just deal with chapters as headings in huge files--ugh.)

Wiebenor · 03-19-2022, 02:43 PM

For anyone who is a bit confused, or want clarification on this point, to better help me understand; What I meant by "merge" is that I have used the "EbookMerge" plugin or whatever it's called, to take 2 epubs and turn them into 1 epub. That said, I have moved chapters around in an epub before, a few years ago, so assuming that process is the same these days, it shouldn't be TOO difficult to get back in the swing of things where that's concerned, however, my main question revolves around how to best differentiate the sub-story from the main story, while maintaining it's position in the narrative sequence...

I thank you all who have already given me some things to think about, buy am open to more discussion and different ideas as to the best way to accomplish my goals and to learn more about story outlines/structures and related terminology...

Foozle · 03-19-2022, 02:51 PM

That really depends on your preference. You could do what I've seen others do and make it an "Interlude", a sub section between the main chapters, and label it as "Interlude 1", "Interlude 2"... instead of "Chapter 1", "Chapter 2"... Just an idea.

Wiebenor · 03-19-2022, 02:59 PM

That just might work, although, I would probably label the chapters "Christmas interlude chapter 1", 2, and so on, as it is something like 15 chapters, and saying "interlude 1" to "interlude15" sounds wierd when it's used to denote "extra scenes" which technically all the chapters are part of the same scene, or general location and time...(eg Christmas)

Foozle · 03-19-2022, 03:20 PM

Like I said, just a basic idea. You can play around with it to change it to suit your needs. Instead of Interlude, maybe something more like Christmas Break? Christmas Break Chapter 1, etc.?

Wiebenor · 03-19-2022, 03:42 PM

Ah... I didn't think of non-standard book phraseology, but that would probably work better... I could leave the chapters in the middle of the book the same (eg chapter 2, 3, and so on) but have a "Christmas break" opening and closing demarcation, to make the minimum amount of book edits, as I honestly hate doing more editing than I have to, to avoid accidentally changing the formatting... Of course, the scene-change divider lines in the books in question I might try and find a way to get rid of, or make unnecessary, but I think I can probably do that without too much layout changing, if any at all... Thanks for all your ideas so far, and I'll try and not be so obsessed with book writing rules and conventions in the future... Have a great day to one and all

davidfor · 03-20-2022, 11:26 PM

So, the extra story is basically "What I did during the Christmas Break". And it is broken into chapters. If so, one thing I would do is to put the title of the story in as a chapter and then is to put the sub chapters as at a lower heading level. That would show in the ToC where the extra chapters are without breaking the original flow. Changing the chapter names to "Christmas Break 1" or something like that would help with the flow when reading. Or adding something to the end of the last of these chapters to show you are returning to the main flow of the novel.

For the "What I did during the Christmas Break", you could put it at the start of the first chapter, or add a separate file just for that. Doing the latter would allow you to add an explanation of what is happening or something else or a place to put the cover page.

Wiebenor · 03-21-2022, 01:40 AM

If by "lower heading" you mean something akin to a paragraph or other indent, like with bullet points for instance in MS Word, then yes, that's definitely something I was thinking of, amongst all my other possibilities, but since I don't know what half this stuff is called, it's hard to know what to ask for help or information on... Would definitely be nice if there was some kind of document outline terminology, or whatever it's called for me to know the proper names for indents and things in writing, as well as how these things work different in epubs... Trust me, as much as I can copy/paste and edit stuff that way, I'm finding it hard t understand the html and similar languages used in an epub, to where I would be able to do anything other than the aforementioned copy/paste and rename kind of editing

Foozle · 03-21-2022, 08:10 PM

In other words, do a main heading (large, bold, centered) Christmas Break, then in a separate heading (smaller, still bold, centered) Christmas Break 1. Basically, these would be the h1 and h2 tags in the EPUB HTML code.

Or just break them up on different pages. Making the Christmas Break header its own page, with the chapters starting on the next page.

03-19-2022, 01:36 AM	#1
Wiebenor Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: PC or phone	Question about ordering merged book chapters This question may sound stupid, but here's some background information on my question, before I ask it, that may help you all understand what I'm looking to do... I am not sure if anyone has ever done something like this, or needed to, but I have a fanfiction book that already has 71 chapters that someone authored, plus there's a "book" that comes after it, that took place in the middle of the first book, that has 15 chapters. What my question is, is this, I need to insert the 15 chapters of the other "book" in between chapter 53 and 54 of the bigger book, and I am looking for the best way to do it, like for instance, do I create a sub book, or label different parts or arcs, to keep the chapter labels the same(eg 1-15) or would it be better to rename all the chapters, or what is the PROPER book writing technique that one would apply in this situation. The story I downloaded, in essence, at the end chapter 53, involves students starting to go home on Christmas break, then at the start of 54, they are, I guess, magically back at their school, and there's a few weeks of Christmas break storyline that should be in between, that are, by the author, created later and added as a separate story, to keep the book somewhat more focused on the plot, but honestly, the book in question is a bit of a cliffhanger where that's concerned, and for my personal copy I'd rather have that built into the main story, so as to keep the small works of a few books I have, in their proper order without having to timejump to the past in a "future" book, that isn't treated like, or written like a future story... I don't know if any of that made any sense, or if there's a way to take a merged book and easily rearrange stuff properly, and to even do THAT, I would have to know something about book writing terminology, I think, to know what kind of chapter or part demarcation I would need, so any help with all these questions would be appreciated, greatly, and I hope someone at least, isn't as confused as I am, or at least can understand that it is I'm looking to do, because, I can slightly edit the end and start of the bookending book chapters, so the "other book" looks like it was always supposed to be right there, as opposed to something like an addendum, or similar

03-19-2022, 10:27 AM	#2
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,817 Karma: 54830978 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	Since you already posted in the Calibre Editor sub-forum. you could just Move the files placement order (up or down)in the File Browser (a window in the Editor). Just drag the highlighted piece to its proper (order) place. This assumes you did not use the term MERGE to mean make a huge section file in the book out of each (FF) piece you added (inserted into the book)There is absolutely no reason for EPUB/AZW* files to be made from a single huge file (inside). The Editor S&R scope setting can determine what files are operated upon). If you did make a huge file out of piece, ask if you need help using the Editors (not to be confused with the plugin the splits books) Split function The TOC editor tool, allows the TOC to adjusted any order / indent you see fit Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

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03-19-2022, 11:16 AM	#3
retiredbiker Addict Posts: 387 Karma: 1638210 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ontario, Canada Device: Kindle KB, Oasis, Pop_Os!, Jutoh, Kobo Forma	Assuming, as theducks said, that each chapter is its own file, and assuming that you have the books in epub or azw3, what I would do is: 1. Take the 15-chapter sub-book, open in editor, and highlight the 15 chapter files, then export them (right-click the selection, then export). 2. Open the main big book, and Menu-->File-->Import files into book. Point to your 15 exported files. 3. Drag the files from the bottom of the list, where they will appear, to where you want them among the original chapters. 4. Check that they look OK in the preview. If they don't, the books probably have different styling, css, etc. You can fix that, maybe import the smaller book's css file. This could be no problem or a big deal, depending on the books. 5. Use the ToC editor to do whatever you want with the new files in the ToC. Add them to the ToC and call them whatever you like. (If the chapters are not in single files, your best bet is to split them up to make it so before you start. Or just deal with chapters as headings in huge files--ugh.)

03-19-2022, 02:43 PM	#4
Wiebenor Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: PC or phone	For anyone who is a bit confused, or want clarification on this point, to better help me understand; What I meant by "merge" is that I have used the "EbookMerge" plugin or whatever it's called, to take 2 epubs and turn them into 1 epub. That said, I have moved chapters around in an epub before, a few years ago, so assuming that process is the same these days, it shouldn't be TOO difficult to get back in the swing of things where that's concerned, however, my main question revolves around how to best differentiate the sub-story from the main story, while maintaining it's position in the narrative sequence... I thank you all who have already given me some things to think about, buy am open to more discussion and different ideas as to the best way to accomplish my goals and to learn more about story outlines/structures and related terminology...

03-19-2022, 02:51 PM	#5
Foozle Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 221034 Join Date: May 2021 Device: None	That really depends on your preference. You could do what I've seen others do and make it an "Interlude", a sub section between the main chapters, and label it as "Interlude 1", "Interlude 2"... instead of "Chapter 1", "Chapter 2"... Just an idea.

03-19-2022, 02:59 PM	#6
Wiebenor Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: PC or phone	That just might work, although, I would probably label the chapters "Christmas interlude chapter 1", 2, and so on, as it is something like 15 chapters, and saying "interlude 1" to "interlude15" sounds wierd when it's used to denote "extra scenes" which technically all the chapters are part of the same scene, or general location and time...(eg Christmas)

03-19-2022, 03:20 PM	#7
Foozle Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 221034 Join Date: May 2021 Device: None	Like I said, just a basic idea. You can play around with it to change it to suit your needs. Instead of Interlude, maybe something more like Christmas Break? Christmas Break Chapter 1, etc.?

03-19-2022, 03:42 PM	#8
Wiebenor Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: PC or phone	Ah... I didn't think of non-standard book phraseology, but that would probably work better... I could leave the chapters in the middle of the book the same (eg chapter 2, 3, and so on) but have a "Christmas break" opening and closing demarcation, to make the minimum amount of book edits, as I honestly hate doing more editing than I have to, to avoid accidentally changing the formatting... Of course, the scene-change divider lines in the books in question I might try and find a way to get rid of, or make unnecessary, but I think I can probably do that without too much layout changing, if any at all... Thanks for all your ideas so far, and I'll try and not be so obsessed with book writing rules and conventions in the future... Have a great day to one and all

03-20-2022, 11:26 PM	#9
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,907 Karma: 47303748 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	So, the extra story is basically "What I did during the Christmas Break". And it is broken into chapters. If so, one thing I would do is to put the title of the story in as a chapter and then is to put the sub chapters as at a lower heading level. That would show in the ToC where the extra chapters are without breaking the original flow. Changing the chapter names to "Christmas Break 1" or something like that would help with the flow when reading. Or adding something to the end of the last of these chapters to show you are returning to the main flow of the novel. For the "What I did during the Christmas Break", you could put it at the start of the first chapter, or add a separate file just for that. Doing the latter would allow you to add an explanation of what is happening or something else or a place to put the cover page.

03-21-2022, 01:40 AM	#10
Wiebenor Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2022 Device: PC or phone	If by "lower heading" you mean something akin to a paragraph or other indent, like with bullet points for instance in MS Word, then yes, that's definitely something I was thinking of, amongst all my other possibilities, but since I don't know what half this stuff is called, it's hard to know what to ask for help or information on... Would definitely be nice if there was some kind of document outline terminology, or whatever it's called for me to know the proper names for indents and things in writing, as well as how these things work different in epubs... Trust me, as much as I can copy/paste and edit stuff that way, I'm finding it hard t understand the html and similar languages used in an epub, to where I would be able to do anything other than the aforementioned copy/paste and rename kind of editing

03-21-2022, 08:10 PM	#11
Foozle Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 221034 Join Date: May 2021 Device: None	In other words, do a main heading (large, bold, centered) Christmas Break, then in a separate heading (smaller, still bold, centered) Christmas Break 1. Basically, these would be the h1 and h2 tags in the EPUB HTML code. Or just break them up on different pages. Making the Christmas Break header its own page, with the chapters starting on the next page.

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