Will Kindle get ePub support?

Rolando · 08-10-2010, 05:06 PM

Has anybody heard any scuttlebutt about Kindle software being upgraded to support ePub? I don't see the downside to Amazon, since people are already converting ePub to mobi. It would just be nice not to have to deal with the conversion process.

whitearrow · 08-10-2010, 05:11 PM

Nope, and I doubt it will happen. Amazon wants to keep things as simple as possible. They also want to sell books, and they don't sell epub.

tovare · 08-10-2010, 05:19 PM

Technical vendor lock-in is a popular way to generate monopolies without getting hit by anti-trust.

It would be a lot better if the entire industry converged on a single standard, so that the publication quality of eBooks was heightened.

But in a narrowminded context it is easy for companies to focus on:

1. As large margin per sale per customer as possible (even when the customer base potential is enormous)

2. A large market share compared to the competition as possible (even when the competition isn't doing too well)

The sales target for Amazon should be about 1 billion books sold every week, but I guess they are pretty happy with their crappy sales figures they have today :-P

delphidb96 · 08-10-2010, 05:53 PM

I wish Amazon *would* add epub support. Specifically Nook epub support.

Why? Because while Amazon fully honors its warranty on the Kindles regardless of whether the requestor is the 'original owner', B&N does NOT!

Further, Amazon, if the 1-year warranty has expired, the new owner can STILL get the Kindle (2) repaired for a $135 fee. B&N? Yep, you guessed it - NOT!

So I've got this broken Nook-which if the original owner had not sold it to me-would still be under warranty. But it's NOT!

Yes... Please Jeff Bezos, I beg you! Create epub support on the Kindle and drive B&N out of business! Thrust a stake through its vampire heart, cut off its head, sew communion wafers into its mouth and leave the rotting corpse to turn to ashes with the rising of the sun!

Derek Benner

JMikeD · 08-10-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovare

It would be a lot better if the entire industry converged on a single standard, so that the publication quality of eBooks was heightened.

I don’t quite see how those two things are connected.

carld · 08-10-2010, 06:34 PM

I just don't see the advantage for Amazon in supporting ePub. First they'd have to update the software, and test the heck out of it. I'm sure that's not trivial or cheap.

Also, what would Amazon gain? They already support non-DRM ePub through conversion, and it works really well as far as I can see. To support DRM ePub would mean at the very least paying Adobe to use ADE, and giving up some control over the Kindle. I just don't see that happening. Adding several other DRM schemes so customers could shop at other stores would be both a support nightmare and self-defeating.

I would like to see them add support for Overdrive's DRM. That would at least allow mobi files and PDFs to be borrowed from the library without any hassle. But, I just don't see ePub coming to the Kindle, though I wouldn't mind being wrong.

tovare · 08-10-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMikeD

I don’t quite see how those two things are connected.

In a multiformat world you tend to target the lowest common denominator approach, rather than utilizing the full potential of the format and media. The publication path today might look something like this:

A high quality pipeline:

Frame Maker -> pdf or print.

Path with tagged and extracted content:

Frame Maker -> DocBook -> ePub, HTML and Mobi

The downgrade happens because Frame Maker has more features than the other formats, but lacking in other areas. At the same time the material is written for a different media. DocBook although good, downgrades the material even further, then you have a last conversion step where you'd probably utilize XSL and just try to find simmilarities with all 3 to ease conversion and maintenance.

(And that's a really good multiformat route, a lot of commercial mulitiformat releases are much much worse).

Compare for example, Three men in a boat, with your average commercial epub:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48377

It just feels like a higher quality publication and getting it done requires tuning the book to ePUB.

Alisa · 08-10-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I would like to see them add support for Overdrive's DRM. That would at least allow mobi files and PDFs to be borrowed from the library without any hassle. But, I just don't see ePub coming to the Kindle, though I wouldn't mind being wrong.

Sadly my library isn't adding any more mobi. Only ePub. I don't know if that's widely true, though.

tovare · 08-10-2010, 07:04 PM

This is from the Adobe FAQ:

Converting InDesign documents for Kindle compatibility:

Export InDesign document to EPUB
Convert EPUB to alternative MOBI format
Preview on Kindle device (optional)
Upload to Amazon store

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/digitalp...ntokindle.html

Note, the optional part of the recommendation. How would actually looking at a book prior to publication potentially impact the quality?

I consider this a a huge problem with eBooks ... a lot of them don't really have a publisher like a paper book would have ... just a dump computer script and Amazon just makes it worse by sticking to their own format.

They should do like Sony did and drop their own format and go full speed with EPub.

carld · 08-10-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovare

I consider this a a huge problem with eBooks ... a lot of them don't really have a publisher like a paper book would have ... just a dump computer script and Amazon just makes it worse by sticking to their own format.

They should do like Sony did and drop their own format and go full speed with EPub.

I don't follow your logic. How does Amazon not supporting ePub make matters worse as far as eBooks not having real publishers?

Converting to ePub at this point would be an enormous and costly undertaking for Amazon. There will be 700,000 ebooks in Amazon's catalog very soon. That's a huge number of ebooks that would need to be converted and proofed. And if they don't do this conversion they'd have to sell and support two formats.

I just don't see ePub making any sense for Amazon.

tovare · 08-10-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I don't follow your logic. How does Amazon not supporting ePub make matters worse as far as eBooks not having real publishers?

Converting to ePub at this point would be an enormous and costly undertaking for Amazon. There will be 700,000 ebooks in Amazon's catalog very soon. That's a huge number of ebooks that would need to be converted and proofed. And if they don't do this conversion they'd have to sell and support two formats.

I just don't see ePub making any sense for Amazon.

1. EPub is a more advanced format, so there's no degredation that I'm aware of going from mobi to EPub. At least all my mobipocket books converted fine.

2. Converting 700 000 books would take Amazon a few hours. Their E2C Elastic Compute Cloud (Which they offer as a product) could easily convert more than 30 million books every day. (Even as a private individual you can hire 1000 powerfull servers from them for a few hours without prior notice if you feel like it ... they DO have the computing power to do this easily).

3. A lot of the books are not proofread by anyone, just dumped into the Amazon store by publishers. When customers complain about missing pages and unreadable books, responsibility is shifted to the publisher. Amazon is not a publisher, they take 30% or something for providing a shopping cart and alot of market power. And this is my whole point, someone writes the books in the first place and if that's EPub then all books would have been of a higher quality.

delphidb96 · 08-10-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

I just don't see the advantage for Amazon in supporting ePub. First they'd have to update the software, and test the heck out of it. I'm sure that's not trivial or cheap.

Also, what would Amazon gain? They already support non-DRM ePub through conversion, and it works really well as far as I can see. To support DRM ePub would mean at the very least paying Adobe to use ADE, and giving up some control over the Kindle. I just don't see that happening. Adding several other DRM schemes so customers could shop at other stores would be both a support nightmare and self-defeating.

I would like to see them add support for Overdrive's DRM. That would at least allow mobi files and PDFs to be borrowed from the library without any hassle. But, I just don't see ePub coming to the Kindle, though I wouldn't mind being wrong.

They would gain by helping to kill of Barnes & Noble. That alone is worth every bit of effort in adding epub support to the Kindle.

No, I'm not making a joke.

Barnes & Noble delenda est!

Derek

SensualPoet · 08-10-2010, 07:54 PM

I believe Amazon is doing the right thing in NOT supporting ePub at this point. Their customer experience is simplicity. Adding a second format -- pdf or ePub -- complicates what is now a seamless and hassle-free purchase and reading experience.

I would like Amazon to figure out a deal with Overdrive to distribute Kindle DRM books through libraries.

If the world ends up with two formats, well, then, there it is. But there is no reason for Amazon to bother distributing more than one.

JSWolf · 08-10-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

I wish Amazon *would* add epub support. Specifically Nook epub support.

Why? Because while Amazon fully honors its warranty on the Kindles regardless of whether the requestor is the 'original owner', B&N does NOT!

Further, Amazon, if the 1-year warranty has expired, the new owner can STILL get the Kindle (2) repaired for a $135 fee. B&N? Yep, you guessed it - NOT!

So I've got this broken Nook-which if the original owner had not sold it to me-would still be under warranty. But it's NOT!

Yes... Please Jeff Bezos, I beg you! Create epub support on the Kindle and drive B&N out of business! Thrust a stake through its vampire heart, cut off its head, sew communion wafers into its mouth and leave the rotting corpse to turn to ashes with the rising of the sun!

Derek Benner

Why would anyone want to get a K2 fixed at the same price as a K3 with wifi? And it's not much more to get a K3 with 3G. So really, broken K2s are to be tossed out. They have no use at all.

Why would you buy a broken nook?

PharaohsVizier · 08-10-2010, 08:04 PM

If mobi was as good as ePub that'd be all fine and dandy, but ePub is better, which is a problem.

08-10-2010, 05:06 PM	#1
Rolando Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Gainesville, Florida Device: iPad, Kindle	Will Kindle get ePub support? Has anybody heard any scuttlebutt about Kindle software being upgraded to support ePub? I don't see the downside to Amazon, since people are already converting ePub to mobi. It would just be nice not to have to deal with the conversion process.

08-10-2010, 07:04 PM	#9
tovare Addict Posts: 221 Karma: 1133312 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oslo/Norway Device: PRS-600, Kindle kb Wifi, new Kindle NT, PW2, Kindle Oasis	More on the topic of a ePUB support benefits This is from the Adobe FAQ: Converting InDesign documents for Kindle compatibility: Export InDesign document to EPUB Convert EPUB to alternative MOBI format Preview on Kindle device (optional) Upload to Amazon store http://www.adobe.com/devnet/digitalp...ntokindle.html Note, the optional part of the recommendation. How would actually looking at a book prior to publication potentially impact the quality? I consider this a a huge problem with eBooks ... a lot of them don't really have a publisher like a paper book would have ... just a dump computer script and Amazon just makes it worse by sticking to their own format. They should do like Sony did and drop their own format and go full speed with EPub.

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08-10-2010, 05:11 PM	#2
whitearrow Guru Posts: 808 Karma: 2260766 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Kindle Oasis 2	Nope, and I doubt it will happen. Amazon wants to keep things as simple as possible. They also want to sell books, and they don't sell epub.

08-10-2010, 05:19 PM	#3
tovare Addict Posts: 221 Karma: 1133312 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oslo/Norway Device: PRS-600, Kindle kb Wifi, new Kindle NT, PW2, Kindle Oasis	Technical vendor lock-in is a popular way to generate monopolies without getting hit by anti-trust. It would be a lot better if the entire industry converged on a single standard, so that the publication quality of eBooks was heightened. But in a narrowminded context it is easy for companies to focus on: 1. As large margin per sale per customer as possible (even when the customer base potential is enormous) 2. A large market share compared to the competition as possible (even when the competition isn't doing too well) The sales target for Amazon should be about 1 billion books sold every week, but I guess they are pretty happy with their crappy sales figures they have today :-P

08-10-2010, 05:53 PM	#4
delphidb96 Wizard Posts: 2,999 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Citrus Heights, California Device: TWO Kindle 2s, one each Bookeen Cybook Gen3, Sony PRS-500, Axim X51V	I wish Amazon would add epub support. Specifically Nook epub support. Why? Because while Amazon fully honors its warranty on the Kindles regardless of whether the requestor is the 'original owner', B&N does NOT! Further, Amazon, if the 1-year warranty has expired, the new owner can STILL get the Kindle (2) repaired for a $135 fee. B&N? Yep, you guessed it - NOT! So I've got this broken Nook-which if the original owner had not sold it to me-would still be under warranty. But it's NOT! Yes... Please Jeff Bezos, I beg you! Create epub support on the Kindle and drive B&N out of business! Thrust a stake through its vampire heart, cut off its head, sew communion wafers into its mouth and leave the rotting corpse to turn to ashes with the rising of the sun! Derek Benner

08-10-2010, 06:34 PM	#6
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I just don't see the advantage for Amazon in supporting ePub. First they'd have to update the software, and test the heck out of it. I'm sure that's not trivial or cheap. Also, what would Amazon gain? They already support non-DRM ePub through conversion, and it works really well as far as I can see. To support DRM ePub would mean at the very least paying Adobe to use ADE, and giving up some control over the Kindle. I just don't see that happening. Adding several other DRM schemes so customers could shop at other stores would be both a support nightmare and self-defeating. I would like to see them add support for Overdrive's DRM. That would at least allow mobi files and PDFs to be borrowed from the library without any hassle. But, I just don't see ePub coming to the Kindle, though I wouldn't mind being wrong.

08-10-2010, 07:54 PM	#13
SensualPoet Wizard Posts: 2,302 Karma: 2607151 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Paperwhite, Asus ZenPad 3, Kobo Glo	I believe Amazon is doing the right thing in NOT supporting ePub at this point. Their customer experience is simplicity. Adding a second format -- pdf or ePub -- complicates what is now a seamless and hassle-free purchase and reading experience. I would like Amazon to figure out a deal with Overdrive to distribute Kindle DRM books through libraries. If the world ends up with two formats, well, then, there it is. But there is no reason for Amazon to bother distributing more than one.

08-10-2010, 08:04 PM	#15
PharaohsVizier Connoisseur Posts: 92 Karma: 510274 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kindle 3, Kindle DXG, Kindle Fire, Kindle Touch	If mobi was as good as ePub that'd be all fine and dandy, but ePub is better, which is a problem.

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