Amazon DRM limiting number of times you can download a book

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

And this is what my brother wanted me to jump in the middle of. There are lots of things I like about the K2 - but man the DRM system seems annoying.

only seems annoying !

[Elsi]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

But if you don't remove the DRM, the backups are pointless, as you won't be able to move them to another device. If you delete the book from your Kindle, you can re-downlaod it from Amazon. If you have to replace your Kindle, your PC backed up files won't work because the have the wrong PID; you have to redownload them from Amazon.

Originally Posted by susan_cassidy

But if your internet connection is down, or Amazon suddenly loses servers, etc., you can copy your backup copy back to the original Kindle from your backup.

Originally Posted by sirbruce

True. Like I said before (but forgot to qualify the second time) it's *almost* pointless.

But Sir Bruce -- when and if that situation arises, I can remove the DRM. I just choose not to go through that step until I need it. That way, if I happen to be traveling through one of those countries where removing DRM is illegal, I won't have my laptop confiscated.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

at least FW have not deleted my bookshelf from their servers.

All that FW guarantee is to keep your book available for 3 months after purchase.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

it also depends on how long the store retains books on your behalf.

one that i downloaded 9 months ago from BoB is no longer available for me to download.

i.e. my order area contains the books ordered but they are no longer stored in my bookshelf.

at least FW have not deleted my bookshelf from their servers.

I've lost two books at fictionwise each around $25 and none on BoB. Not saying one is better than another I think it depends on the publisher and if they chose to pull a book from distribution.

Originally Posted by HarryT

All that FW guarantee is to keep your book available for 3 months after purchase.

Harry is correct and that was their response was after after I wrote to them about inquiring why I did not have access to these books.

=X=

[dwallbaum]

<baffled>

My planned strategy with the K2 was to order a book, DL to the K2, read it, then store it on the computer to keep my Kindle-bound books down to a reasonable number.

I thought I would then load the book back from the computer to the K2 if I wanted to re-read.

(Assume here a book purchased for cash money from Amazon, not a freebie or Gutenberg or equiv.)

So, if I remove a book from the K2 and store it on the computer, I will _not_ be able to reload it in a readable form back on the K2?

I would then have to either re-purchase the book, re-download from Amazon, or remove the existing file's DRM?

Do I have this scenario correct?

thx!

Don

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by dwallbaum

So, if I remove a book from the K2 and store it on the computer, I will _not_ be able to reload it in a readable form back on the K2?

I would then have to either re-purchase the book, re-download from Amazon, or remove the existing file's DRM?

Do I have this scenario correct?

So long as you still have the same K2, you'll be able to copy the back-up copy on your computer back to your K2 without any problems.

But if your K2 gets replaced, you'll need to be able to download again from Amazon. (Or strip the DRM.)

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by dwallbaum

So, if I remove a book from the K2 and store it on the computer, I will _not_ be able to reload it in a readable form back on the K2?

This will work if you reload it onto the same K2. If your K2 breaks and Amazon replaces it (for example) then you will have to redownload all the ebooks from the Amazon servers.

In most cases Amazon will keep a copy of all your ebooks purchased from them on their servers (or actually a database entry that you own the ebook and can download it). The reason for saving your own copy is because anything can happen to Amazon given enough time or to an individual ebook (e.g. the publisher can pull it from Amazon). Also if you have a copy, and the PID for your K2, then you can always strip the DRM later if you need to. Note that so far even if a publisher pulls an ebook, my experience has been that you can still redownload it to an existing Kindle, but I doubt that you can then download it to a new Kindle. In any case, the general rule is don't trust a DRM provider - they always screw you in the end.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by dwallbaum

<baffled>

My planned strategy with the K2 was to order a book, DL to the K2, read it, then store it on the computer to keep my Kindle-bound books down to a reasonable number.

I thought I would then load the book back from the computer to the K2 if I wanted to re-read.

(Assume here a book purchased for cash money from Amazon, not a freebie or Gutenberg or equiv.)

So, if I remove a book from the K2 and store it on the computer, I will _not_ be able to reload it in a readable form back on the K2?

I would then have to either re-purchase the book, re-download from Amazon, or remove the existing file's DRM?

Do I have this scenario correct?

thx!

Don

No. That story was so poorly worded I'm not surprised at all that you're confused. You will be able to copy that file back to that Kindle from your computer. You would also be able to reload it from Amazon for that Kindle. The issue comes from the fact that each book has a set number of licenses, usually 6, sometimes fewer. The publisher gets to set that number. Sadly Amazon isn't at all transparent about letting you know how many copies you get of a given title. There are people who have now run out of licenses on some of their books because they've already been copied to the maximum number of devices.

Your Kindle has a unique ID called a PID. When you bought that book, it registered one license to that PID. The book file you have is encrypted using that PID. If you tried to take that file and copy it over to another Kindle, that Kindle wouldn't be able to open it because it has a different PID. If you registered that second Kindle to your account, you could download a copy for it. That uses another one of your licenses. Some people have multiple Kindles, or they've upgraded and gotten rid of their old one, or they've added iPhones to their account, or they've had to return a Kindle. If they downloaded books to all of these, they could easily have exhausted the licenses for some of them. Fortunately, as SirBruce said, Amazon will free up licenses for you if you contact them an explain that you no longer have the devices that you registered for them.

[Scott Nielsen]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

But if your K2 gets replaced, you'll need to be able to download again from Amazon. (Or strip the DRM.)

I keep seeing references to stripping the DRM. I have never thought about it before but given this thread I can't help but consider it.

How is that done? I realize that, depending on where you are, it might not be quite kosher to answer that in an open forum but perhaps through a personal message?

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Scott Nielsen

I keep seeing references to stripping the DRM.

For a Kindle, you first need its PID (see kindlepid/kindlefix 0.2) then another python script, mobidedrm.py, will strip the DRM creating a DRM-free MOBI. This only works for AZW ebooks, and note that some AZWs are already DRM-free and just need renaming from .azw to .mobi.

[Scott Nielsen]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

For a Kindle, you first need its PID (see kindlepid/kindlefix 0.2) then another python script, mobidedrm.py, will strip the DRM creating a DRM-free MOBI. This only works for AZW ebooks, and note that some AZWs are already DRM-free and just need renaming from .azw to .mobi.

Thanks for the pointer! I shall review that thread in full.

[Scott Nielsen]

Originally Posted by Scott Nielsen

Thanks for the pointer! I shall review that thread in full.

That was an interesting read. Stripping the DRM not for me - I just hope that neither company every goes out of business or that, if they were, I would then have legal means of ensuring my purchased content could be read on other devices.

[ProfJulie]

An update to this story is posted on Consumerist: Amazon Tries to Clarify Download Limits For Kindle Books, Doesn't Quite Succeed

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Scott Nielsen

I just hope that neither company every goes out of business or that, if they were, I would then have legal means of ensuring my purchased content could be read on other devices.

You may hope this, but experience has shown that it's a false hope.

It's not necessary for Amazon to go out of business for your DRMed ebooks to become unreadable. Amazon can be in business selling Kindles and DRMed ebooks, and you can still lose access to your DRMed ebooks.

1. Publisher loses rights to book - either a fixed term contract, or the author invokes a reversion clause.
2. Your Kindle breaks and you get a new Kindle
3. You can't download your book again, because it's no longer available in the Kindle store.
4. You can't use your back-up version, because its DRM doesn't match your new Kindle.

A similar thing recently really happened with Fictionwise - one of their suppliers stopped supplying them, and customers with books from that supplier could no longer download new copies.

If you want to keep your ebooks for the long term, you have two choices.

1. don't buy DRMed ebooks
2. strip the DRM

[sirbruce]

The law in the US allows you to strip the DRM from software in such cases; it seems like it would apply to ebooks as well.