Furious with Sony Service

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're directing your "fury" at the wrong people. They've done nothing wrong. You're the one who cracked your screen, even if you weren't aware of it at the time. It really DOESN'T take much to do it.

...and here are a couple:

The technology or manufacturing process could be inherently flawed, and all of these manufactures have a "cover our asses" clause for exactly that reason. Instead of assuming this risk in the pricing and product, they leave the buyer hanging out to dry. No one EVER has made anything and done THAT tho in the History of Business, heheh.

C'mon.

I've repaired machines professionally for years. Nowadays an LCD panel can take a LOT of abuse before they break. A LOT. A cracked display pane is REAL OBVIOUS, impact damage is VERY easy to spot as is a rear or front flat pressure form of damage (the seal is loosened. very easy to detect).

The notion that it cannot be a poorly made display that slipped past QA is a bit of a reach. Why must "you did it" be the ONLY possible and likely solution? You calling the poster a liar?

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Of course I accept that you disagree with me, PCH. We are all entitled to express our views here. I am simply saying that Sony's technicians are undoubtedly better equipped to diagnose faults than you or I are, and that you have no logical reason to disagree with their assessment of the problem.

No logical reason?!

How about Sony is not an unbiased 3rd Party?!

How about Sony sells via SONY an additional "warranty" that is pure profit as I believe of 80% of "extended coverage" warranty purchases go unclaimed?

Talk about "blackmail"...

"Yeah um, we dropped the price of this product with an (arguably way-too) delicate easily breakable part so we could sell more of them. As such, unless you an additional premium over the asking price, good luck and god bless!"

Why not just be honest and upfront and sell the thing for $350 or whatever and stand behind the product?

Ah. Because the customer is a dishonest so-and-so...get the money and then let them enjoy being FINDA when it fails.

Has anyone researched, I mean really researched the "run rate" on these displays? How many do they have to toss at the factory because they are unusable?

I cannot believe how biased you are against consumers, Harry. What is the deal here?! Did PCH once post that he drove over the speed limit or something, or ripped a cd or dvd and as such must be a lying thief and I missed this?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mrkai

Why is it Harry, in virtually every case discussed on these boards on almost any subject, you assume the customer is trying to rip off some company?

Because I both run my own software business and work part-time for a large company in a role which partially involves supporting the internal systems we write. In both these roles, my experience is that the customer will swear to you on their mother's grave that they didn't do a thing - "it just broke", honest. In the overwhelming majority of cases they are wrong - they DID do something, but either don't know that they did, or don't want to admit to the fact.

20-odd years experience of that makes me highly cynical of claims that "it just broke".

Given the choice of believing the judgement of a highly-skilled professional whose job it is to assess and judge the cause of a problem, and an customer who knows virtually nothing about it, I'll trust the judgement of the professional in every case. That may be wrong on occasions, sure, but you can bet it's going to be right in the vast majority of cases.

Sorry, but that's the truth of it.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

...I'll trust the judgement of the professional in every case. ...

Your garage mechanic must love you

[HarryT]

As a professional myself, Sparrow, I trust the judgement of other professionals. I don't argue about what's wrong with me with my doctor, or argue what's wrong with my car with my car dealer. They are the experts, and I trust them, just as I expect my clients to trust me in my field of professional expertise. If they don't, they are welcome to take their business elsewhere.

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because I both run my own software business and work part-time for a large company in a role which partially involves supporting the internal systems we write. In both these roles, my experience is that the customer will swear to you on their mother's grave that they didn't do a thing - "it just broke", honest. In the overwhelming majority of cases they are wrong - they DID do something, but either don't know that they did, or don't want to admit to the fact.

20-odd years experience of that makes me highly cynical of claims that "it just broke".

Given the choice of believing the judgement of a highly-skilled professional whose job it is to assess and judge the cause of a problem, and an customer who knows virtually nothing about it, I'll trust the judgement of the professional in every case. That may be wrong on occasions, sure, but you can bet it's going to be right in the vast majority of cases.

Sorry, but that's the truth of it.

And that's all I have to say about that.

I could sense there was some bias, I just did not know how deep it ran.

Thanks for being honest about it tho. I will weigh your responses to things, and mine to yours, accordingly in the future.

[mrkai]

It may be a cultural difference, Sparrow.

We kind of have the "root for the underdog"/"the tie goes to the runner" thing here. Other places may view Joe Average as part of the "unwashed masses" and judge things according to this standard.

At any rate, I hope PCH finds some solution that is acceptable.

[Sparrow]

But there have numerous consumer reports into 'experts' ripping off customers.
Always worth getting an impartial opinion if possible, imho.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

But there have numerous consumer reports into 'experts' ripping off customers.
Always worth getting an impartial opinion if possible, imho.

If you wanted advice on a medical problem, whose opinion would you ask? A random person on the street, or a doctor?

Sure, experts aren't always right; I fully accept that; but they are right a heck of a lot more often than a non-expert in their field.

On the balance of probabilities, it's a much safer bet to put your money on the professional judgement of an expert than on that of "Joe Public".

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

But there have numerous consumer reports into 'experts' ripping off customers.
Always worth getting an impartial opinion if possible, imho.

No doubt. Product recalls instantly come to mind in this regard. But again, I have to respect Harry for being honest about his bias...you really don't see a lot of that out here in the ether.

Of course, I will have to fight the temptation to dismiss his stuff outright because I know this up front now

For what Its worth, I too am i the software business and run my own. Software is a product like any other and its not perfect. When we learn of imperfections (we don't always see them) we "do the right thing" and fix stuff.

Are there people out there that trying to screw us? Absolutely. Does this mean I attack every customer because I assume this one was like the last one?

Nope. This is a form of bigotry that hides behind "experience" in my view...but my views aren't canon to anyone but me

-K

[mrkai]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you wanted advice on a medical problem, whose opinion would you ask? A random person on the street, or a doctor?

...I would be less inclined to ask a doctor and more inclined to ask patients that believed they may have been subject to it.

I think we are talking, at least from PCH's point of view about somethig more akin to malpractice than "my knee hurts...should I ask the trashman about it?"

-K

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you wanted advice on a medical problem, whose opinion would you ask? A random person on the street, or a doctor?

I'd try to get the opinions of independent experts.
Financial experts were the ones mis-selling mortgages.
Dentists were the ones charging for unnecessary treatment.

Where there's self-interest there's suspicion (on all sides) imho.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mrkai

I think we are talking, at least from PCH's point of view about somethig more akin to malpractice than "my knee hurts...should I ask the trashman about it?"

-K

From a third party point of view it's more akin to saying "PCH thinks his knee hurts for one reason; his doctor thinks it hurts for a different reason". Whose opinion is it more rational to take as being likely to be true when it comes to the subject of hurt knees?

You regard trusting the view of professionals in their field as "bias". I regard it as the course of action which will be likely to provide the correct outcome in the majority of situations. That's where we differ.

[mrkai]

Well Harry, its also a bit of "guild thinking" and personal self-interest.

Its like the "blue shield" with law enforcement, or the "no comment" on if or not you "rat out" your own.

On the one hand, it is in the "best interest of the trade" for the public to view them as honest and honorable...assuming there is reciprocity.

On the other hand, exposing weaknesses exposes liability. May be better to stay mum.

As a person whose PRS 500 began to fade and ghost in less than a year, and whose first 505 greeted him out of the box with initially a scrambled display that after 10 restarts cleared up, only to replace it with a 1 pixel horizontal line 3/4s the way down the screen (which went away after a couple of hours...but I was on the phone with Sony by this time) I say he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because I both run my own software business and work part-time for a large company in a role which partially involves supporting the internal systems we write. In both these roles, my experience is that the customer will swear to you on their mother's grave that they didn't do a thing - "it just broke", honest. In the overwhelming majority of cases they are wrong - they DID do something, but either don't know that they did, or don't want to admit to the fact.

20-odd years experience of that makes me highly cynical of claims that "it just broke".

Given the choice of believing the judgement of a highly-skilled professional whose job it is to assess and judge the cause of a problem, and an customer who knows virtually nothing about it, I'll trust the judgement of the professional in every case. That may be wrong on occasions, sure, but you can bet it's going to be right in the vast majority of cases.

Sorry, but that's the truth of it.

I'm surprised to see you say this Harry because I've been reading a lot of your posts and tend to agree with you on most things.

I've also worked for many years in the past servicing computers including warranty repairs and believe me I'm used to customers lying to me. Most just don't tell you the whole story because it's not in their best interest to. I don't automatically assume that someone posting in this forum is lying though. I don't see what possible benefit it is to them to lie to us, we're not making the decision on the warranty claim.

I've worked with many other professionals in the industry and most I trust and respect but not all (a very few I trust less then the customers). In this case I don't think it matters though because I believe the determination of the cause of the problem has been taken away from the service professional. I believe it's a company policy that broken glass equals accidental breakage != warranty. The technician determines the glass is broken, job done.

The customer is the one who has spent a month with the product and knows how he treated the device. If he can't recall anything that he's done that could explain it I don't think for one minute he should just accept that policy. I suspect the corporate policy is designed to weed out the people that know what they did and they fully expect people with legitimate concerns to escalate.