01-19-2011, 07:52 PM | #46 |
Connoisseur
Posts: 71
Karma: 44
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: Sony 900BC
|
If it is "illegal" to remove DRM, then why is it legal to sell software that helps it to be removed?
I was searching for info about DRM and the stripping of it and found a site that offers, for $25, a software that will strip the DRM. I would think that if it was illegal, then they could not sell the software. Of course, it is legal to sell items that make guns more dangerous but not legal to use them, but still it seems kinda stupid to say you can't do it but here is the tools you need to do it. I'm sorry, but when I buy a book that is DRM'd, and I can't read it because somene put a lock on it, then I see it as stealing from me! I don't see it as any different than if I went to a car dealership and pay cash for a car. I am given the title and make arrangement to pick it up the next day. When I arrive to get my car I find out they have changed the lock and I can't get in and drive my car home. They refuse to give me the keys to unlock it but yet tell me the car is mine! Who is stealing from whom ? It seems we are in the same postion that readers were years ago when it was taken to court to determine if it was legal to sell used books. The publishers argued that it shouldn't be allowed. The court disagree and it became legal to sell books to a used book store and they could then resell it. |
01-19-2011, 08:15 PM | #47 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
In any case, according to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, it is illegal to break the protection on a copyrighted work, like DVDs, and now digital books. That's the simple answer. If these e-books didn't have digital protection, they could be freely traded, and publishers and author's would be losing money for their work. Many of these software companies are off shore, from what I understand. Not being preachy about it, but it is what it is. |
|
01-19-2011, 08:24 PM | #48 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
· Makes it a crime to circumvent anti-piracy measures built into most commercial software. · Outlaws the manufacture, sale, or distribution of code-cracking devices used to illegally copy software." Full text: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...:H.R.2281.ENR: Again, I'm not preaching, but I think it's important that people understand the law. As the old saying goes, ignorance of the law is no defense. Edit: oops, I quoted "software" but if you read the full text, this covers copyrighted materials and everything else covered by the DMCA. |
|
01-19-2011, 08:44 PM | #49 |
Addict
Posts: 256
Karma: 112042
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
Device: Sony PRS-650
|
|
01-19-2011, 09:21 PM | #50 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
I'm kinda harping about the illegalities of breaking any encryption on a copyrighted work because I'm a moderator in a music forum, and the subject came up about decrypting a music DVD; I had to lock the thread down and explain why- then gave an extremely long explanation of the DMCA. Still members continued to raise arguments as to why they feel they should be able to, and, again, the short explanation is, the law says you can't. If you're industrious enough, you can find ways to strip the DRM; but for me to explain how, would be against this forum's rules. I'm not judging, but I can't impress enough on people, if you do strip the DRM, you are, in fact, breaking the law. I'm just saying do so at your own risk. I'm not picking a fight; as I said before, it is what it is. But I understand the need for the protections of copyrighted works too. I think I should get out of moderator mode, as I'm just a regular member here. Last edited by Killing Floor; 01-19-2011 at 09:22 PM. Reason: typo |
|
01-20-2011, 09:36 AM | #51 | |
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
Posts: 71,504
Karma: 306214458
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Voyage
|
Quote:
|
|
02-02-2011, 05:18 PM | #52 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Posts: 73,957
Karma: 128903250
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
|
Quote:
|
|
02-02-2011, 06:31 PM | #53 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
The act of decrypting an encrypted copyrighted work is, on it's face illegal. I never said it trumped Fair Use. That will probably have to be decided by the Supreme Court. I'm just pointing out the law on it. It says what it says. |
|
02-02-2011, 06:55 PM | #54 | |
Grand Sorcerer
Posts: 5,185
Karma: 25133758
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3 (Past: Kobo Mini, PEZ, PRS-505, Clié)
|
Quote:
If a work isn't protected by copyright law -- and fair use purposes may mean it's not, in the given situation -- then the DMCA doesn't apply to it. The DMCA also says, (c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. — (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title. So the restrictions against using DRM-removing software may not apply to fair use reasons for cracking the DRM. |
|
02-02-2011, 07:22 PM | #55 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
(c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected. — (1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title. The above applies to other copyrighted works where there is no cracking of digital protections on a copyrighted work (broadly speaking, but that's the gist of it). So, you can copy any copyrighted work (following the guidelines under Fair Use) you want. This provision doesn't supersede the language that goes to decrypting an encrypted copyrighted work. In a Federal Court ruling a Judge ruled that invoking "Fair use can never be an affirmative defense to the act of gaining unauthorized access." Google the Realnetworks case (I believe). I'm not here to argue about it. If you believe you can crack DRM under the guise of Fair Use, well, go ahead. |
|
02-02-2011, 11:15 PM | #56 | ||
Addict
Posts: 256
Karma: 112042
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
Device: Sony PRS-650
|
Quote:
Yes, it says what it says, but you're not saying all it says. I see this has gone back and forth a few times, so I hope I'm not getting to the horse beating stage, but I just took a closer look at the page you so helpfully referenced (Sec. 1201): Quote:
IANAL and we all know lawyers write laws to make them incomprehensible to the masses, but this stinking thing looks like it's riddled with loopholes. If the enforcer is evil, then sure, he can say you broke this tyrannical, corrupt law by enabling yourself to read a book you bought. But I believe a very strong case will be made at some point that if you bought a book (or someone bought it as a gift in the OP's case) and the DRM adversely affects you and you strip the DRM so you can make noninfringing uses (i.e. so you can read it), then you did not break this law. And I expect they will use the very words of the DMCA to make the case. |
||
02-03-2011, 07:30 AM | #57 |
Fanatic
Posts: 592
Karma: 138200
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NC, USA
Device: PW2014, PW2012, iPad Pro
|
I'm curious why no one has commented on Xenophon's post at the bottom of page 3 of this thread... or acknowledged it in any way.
|
02-03-2011, 07:53 AM | #58 | |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
Quote:
The bottom line is, if you decrypt an encrypted copyrighted work, you are breaking the law. There already have been infringement cases where the defendants either lost, or settled. I'm not disagreeing with the stance of many, if not most here, but, to me, the law is very clear. I know how to read the law, as convoluted as it is. You would have to prove (and define) how you were "adversely effected." You could argue then- and I'm pulling this out of my hat- "I stripped the DRM because I don't have electricity, couldn't charge my e-reader, so I sideloaded it into my laptop, which was fully charged, so I could read the DRM protected book there." It's not going to fly. The DMCA has been around for awhile, challenged numerous times- has anyone read any headlines where someone has prevailed? Sure, you, I, the Librarian, can do what we wish- as long as we don't decrypt an encrypted work. To go into where you can actually strip the DRM legally would only muddy the waters for the sake of this discussion. |
|
02-03-2011, 01:43 PM | #59 |
Zealot
Posts: 134
Karma: 1337
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Sony PRS 350
|
Agreed. Seems to me that unless there are other lawyers here to dispute the fact, his post is the most accurate information regarding this whole topic.
|
02-03-2011, 02:05 PM | #60 |
Newbie E-Reader
Posts: 37
Karma: 54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Device: Velocity Cruz ((r101)
|
This is the last I will chime in on the subject, as I came on here to escape my day job, and the music forum I moderate in-
"Removing DRM from legally acquired content for personal use only is a legal exercise of my fair use rights;" I've already quoted from the Federal Judge decision that says you can't use Fair Use as an affirmative defense when gaining "unauthorized access"- unauthorized access is decrypting an encrypted copyrighted work. The language is very clear when you read the DMCA. You can own decryption software (I don't believe you can sell that software in US); you just can't use that software. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. Quite frankly, I don't care, as I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to cut through the legalese. If you want to strip the DRM, do so at your own risk is all I have to say. I've done it when I had a problem with my computer, and an e-reader. But I'll freely admit I broke the law when I did so. I'm not going to try to justify my actions by invoking Fair Use, or anything else. |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Is it easy to remove DRM protection? | erictoma | Amazon Kindle | 298 | 02-19-2011 07:38 AM |
drm protection | mogwai | General Discussions | 64 | 09-22-2010 03:08 AM |
DRM Protection Lock-Out Problem | hmgreen | Sony Reader | 3 | 02-28-2010 09:38 AM |