Interesting Admissions From Support

[MarkRPenn]

I've been trying to get some proper help from iRex support since 5th February, relating to my issue here, but with no joy.

Finally, with the intervension of the UK reseller, I had an e-mail last night from their Service Manager, Thom, with some very interesting revelations:

1) He claims they used to accept returns even when they knew they didn't have required parts, and that that was the reason for the delay's, but that they don't do that anymore. One assumes that the delay overall is still the same, just that while they wait for parts YOU have the iLiad, not them? How do they know what parts they'll need before they examine your iLiad? How many different spare parts can they possibly need to stock for a device like this?

2) The iLiad is only compatible with wifi channels 1 and 11, or at least if you have trouble, those are the most likely to work. Obviously that's very limiting if, like me, you need to use another channel in order to avoid interference (that being the reason for having a choice of channels in the first place). As it happens, my iLiad is fine on channel 6 (but see below), so maybe he's being over cautious. It could also be a translation issue, as his actual words were "access point channel is 1 or 11 (12, 13 are not supported)". Maybe he meant "channel is 1 to 11..."

3) The iLiad doesn't like wifi security. He suggests that having it turned on may be the cause of my connectivity issues. Again, as it happens, my iLiad is OK with security, but it's worrying that they think it may be dodgy.

4) This is the killer I think: The iLiad is not compatible with N enabled routers, no matter what setting you have it on. This turns out to be my issue, as I can connect to a G access point and also my Dad's G router, but not to ANY N router I've tried, even if set to G mode.

OK, so you could say that it's a G device so I should expect issues connecting it to an N router, or that N is new and un-finalised so as an early adopter it's my fault, but the fact is that ALL my numerous other G devices connect without issue, that whether or not it's "official" yet, N is widely adopted (my local PC superstore sells little BUT N routers), and above all, that a) there should be a clear warning somewhere, and b) this should have been the first question tech support asked me when I got in touch back in early Feb.

Finally, someone else's comment elsewhere that if you want to reply to an existing ticket, you should open a new one and not think they'll read e-mails seams to be official now, if I'm understanding their English correctly. This is the automatic e-mail I got when I replied to Thom:

"Dear customer,

For technical assistance, please visit http://support.irexnet.com/. In case you wish to contact iRex Techsupport please create a ticket at http://support.irexnet.com/ or contact us by phone.

Kind regards,

iRex Technologies"

Does that mean they didn't get my reply? They should enter the 100m vagueness competition at the Beijing Olympics I reckon.

Mark

Edit: Turns out they now have a new system, which allows tickets to be updated online, but which is NOT updated by replies you send to their e-mails (it used to be - I can see all my old replies, which they totally ignored, in the system). However, their e-mails DON'T tell you this, or give you a link to the system, so you only know about it if you do a load of digging.

On the plus side, I guess this all means they are trying to sort out their support system. They've a long way to go yet though.

[jæd]

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

2) The iLiad is only compatible with wifi channels 1 and 11...

Must be a translation error. My Iliad has been fine on channels 1 to 11...

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

3) The iLiad doesn't like wifi security. He suggests that having it turned on may be the cause of my connectivity issues. Again, as it happens, my iLiad is OK with security, but it's worrying that they think it may be dodgy.

Another translation error...? My Iliad has been fine on WEP with a variety or routers. If you do have problems, the first thing to check is with security switched off...

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

4) This is the killer I think: The iLiad is not compatible with N enabled routers, no matter what setting you have it on. This turns out to be my issue, as I can connect to a G access point and also my Dad's G router, but not to ANY N router I've tried, even if set to G mode.

Again, another translation error...? The Iliad is a b/g device (https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Category:IRex_iLiad) and has played fine with any router that is N enabled.

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by jæd

Another translation error...? My Iliad has been fine on WEP with a variety or routers. If you do have problems, the first thing to check is with security switched off...

I don't think it's translation, but yes what he was saying was that it should be tested without if issues exist. He implied that security could be the cause of issues, which is obviously bad. However as I say, security ISN'T the issue in my case anyway.

But WEP?? I wouldn't consider WEP "security", beyond preventing casual connections, these days.

Originally Posted by jæd

Again, another translation error...? The Iliad is a b/g device (https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Category:IRex_iLiad) and has played fine with any router that is N enabled.

No, definitely not a translation issue, and if you have had it connecting you've been very lucky. I've now tried three N routers (a Belkin, a Netgear and a D-Link), each in g only mode, in b/g mode, and in b/g/n mode, and none have worked, while G routers and access points all work fine. Not one of my other G devices has any problem at all connecting to any of these routers, so it's NOT the routers that are at fault.

Here's what Thom actually said: He asked me to check that I am "- not using an N prepared router (e.g. apple airport is causing troubles)".

Mark

[jæd]

No, definitely not a translation issue, and if you have had it connecting you've been very lucky. I've now tried three N routers (a Belkin, a Netgear and a D-Link), each in g only mode, in b/g mode, and in b/g/n mode, and none have worked, while G routers and access points all work fine. Not one of my other G devices has any problem at all connecting to any of these routers, so it's NOT the routers that are at fault.

Which Netgear router have you tried...? At home I have a DG834N and I've never had problems. At work we've been slowly moving to n and I've never had any problems, and I've never seen it reported...

Re: WEP, not everyone has the freedom to do what they want to all the time. eg, legacy devices, etc. WEP isn;t the best, but its better than nothing...

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by jæd

Which Netgear router have you tried...? At home I have a DG834N and I've never had problems. At work we've been slowly moving to n and I've never had any problems, and I've never seen it reported...

I don't know the model number I'm afraid; it was my brothers, but it wouldn't connect (rather, the iLiad couldn't even see it) no matter what mode it was in.

Maybe at work the routers are more robust?

I've never seen it reported either, which is exactly my point! iRex know the iLiad has trouble with (some?) N routers, which are becoming more and more widespread, yet don't tell anyone!

Originally Posted by jæd

Re: WEP, not everyone has the freedom to do what they want to all the time. eg, legacy devices, etc. WEP isn;t the best, but its better than nothing...

I wasn't suggesting that you are at fault for using WEP, just that it's hardly a test of the iLiad's ability to work with a secure wifi set-up.

On iRex's support site they list (I think) 5 different model numbers for the iLiad. Maybe the issue only applies to certain ones, or to certain firmware/driver versions, which would explain why mine is 100% incompatible with N, while yours is 100% OK with it. Fact is though, mine IS 100% incompatible, iRex know they have an issue, and it's their problem, not the router's or my configuration.

Mark

[jæd]

I'd suspect a more accurate picture is that wireless-n routers have a substantially different implementation of b/g, leading to more problems with wireless chipsets that don't perform consistently.

I notice that you've posted before about problems with wireless, so I'd guess the wireless unit in your Iliad might need replacing.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

2) The iLiad is only compatible with wifi channels 1 and 11, or at least if you have trouble, those are the most likely to work. Obviously that's very limiting if, like me, you need to use another channel in order to avoid interference (that being the reason for having a choice of channels in the first place). As it happens, my iLiad is fine on channel 6 (but see below), so maybe he's being over cautious. It could also be a translation issue, as his actual words were "access point channel is 1 or 11 (12, 13 are not supported)". Maybe he meant "channel is 1 to 11..."

3) The iLiad doesn't like wifi security. He suggests that having it turned on may be the cause of my connectivity issues. Again, as it happens, my iLiad is OK with security, but it's worrying that they think it may be dodgy.

The iLiad is based on the Linux Kernel - so everything what the kernel can do can also be done on the iLiad (userspace applications couldn't show all the option but anyway). If nothing else works you could recompile the kernel with more options.

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by joblack

The iLiad is based on the Linux Kernel - so everything what the kernel can do can also be done on the iLiad (userspace applications couldn't show all the option but anyway). If nothing else works you could recompile the kernel with more options.

I wouldn't know where to start! Plus of course, it's iRex's job!

Mark

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by jæd

I'd suspect a more accurate picture is that wireless-n routers have a substantially different implementation of b/g, leading to more problems with wireless chipsets that don't perform consistently.

Possibly, but if that were true I'd expect lots of devices to have issues, and they don't. The iLiad is only one of many G devices I own, but is the only one that can't connect.

Originally Posted by jæd

I notice that you've posted before about problems with wireless, so I'd guess the wireless unit in your Iliad might need replacing.

No, Thom admits his team were at fault for ever suggesting that (especially as they didn't try ANYTHING else first). The hardware is fine as it connects to G routers every time, and because they haven't found the cause yet, there's no new driver or firmware for them to instal either, so there's no point in sending my iLiad to them.

The bottom line, as Thom says, is that the iLiad can connect to some N routers, but that they have a problem with lots (enough that they percieve it to be an issue, not just me).

If you haven't come cross the problem, that's good, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the purpose of my post was to warn others who may be thinking of upgrading to an N router, and/or help anyone who's struggling, like I was, to get to the bottom of the issue.

I'm genuinely grateful for your suggestions, but actually I'm not asking for help here (unless someone knows more about N routers than iRex do, and can offer a fix), as I know exactly what I have to do - use only G routers/access points until iRex find the issue and update their firmware/drivers.

Mark

[jæd]

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

If you haven't come cross the problem, that's good, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and the purpose of my post was to warn others who may be thinking of upgrading to an N router, and/or help anyone who's struggling, like I was, to get to the bottom of the issue.

I didn't say the problem didn't exist, just that some Iliads might have wifi cards that make the problem worse...

Probably a good idea to try and work out which routers cause problems. As I said, the one I listed is fine... I'll try and fine out what we have at work.

I'm just surprised that wireless-N routers have been out for at least a year (in the UK) and no-one has mentioned this yet...

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by jæd

I'm just surprised that wireless-N routers have been out for at least a year (in the UK) and no-one has mentioned this yet...

Yes I'm surprised no-one's mentioned it here, but then this is a very small sample of iLiad users, which in turn is a VERY small sample of wireless N users overall. Also, even though I've been struggling with the issue since early January, it's only now, when iRex mention it, that it becomes obvious that N routers are the common denominator.

However, iLiad have obviously had enough reports of it to consider it a widespread issue themselves, so we'll see what they do now. I'm certainly not going to be doing any independent investigations myself, as I just don't have the time, and as I can connect via my G range extender. It's up to iRex to sort it out I reckon.

Mark

[axel77]

Sorry but all this n-routers is for me a case in point how stupid our society is.

The n is a *draft*, and it is a draft for reason, since AFAIHeared there are still issues. Otherwise it would be a "real" standard. Now whatever went in a brain of a guy/girl in a company to take a draft, and start selling devices to costumers based on it... and forget to add "draft" to the specification. In fact in this very thread the word "draft" never appeared even once

I remember the early day of the n-drafts, where you were strongly requested to buy all your n-devices from the same manufacturer, or it will with high probability not work. That shops started to selling DRAFT devices en masse, really its all so .

[MarkRPenn]

Originally Posted by axel77

In fact in this very thread the word "draft" never appeared even once

True literally, but in my initial post I said:

....or that N is new and un-finalised so as an early adopter it's my fault....

Which is close

But the point is not that the iLiad is an N device, yet can't connect to an N router, which I'd put down to draft status, but that it's a G device and can't connect to an N router in G mode. My D-Link router comes with a wifi compatibility certificate (can't remember the proper term, but it's independent testing) that confirms it's entirely complient with the B and G standards. In fact as far as the certificate is concerned, if it's in G mode it IS a G router.

I accept that there's obviously something odd about the way (some?) N routers work in G mode, but I don't think the draft status of N lets iRex off the hook, as every other manufacturer I know has no issue.

iRex don't make the wifi card in the iLiad of course, but a) AFAICT the same card is used in many other devices that have no problems, and b) iRex, not the card manufacturer, are responsible for the drivers.

Mark

[jæd]

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

Yes I'm surprised no-one's mentioned it here, but then this is a very small sample of iLiad users, which in turn is a VERY small sample of wireless N users overall. Also, even though I've been struggling with the issue since early January, it's only now, when iRex mention it, that it becomes obvious that N routers are the common denominator.

Only if you knew what people's routers were. It might be obvious to Irex, but to to someone who has non-statistical data on this (you + me), then I can't see how you can say this...

[jæd]

Originally Posted by MarkRPenn

However, iLiad have obviously had enough reports of it to consider it a widespread issue themselves, so we'll see what they do now. I'm certainly not going to be doing any independent investigations myself, as I just don't have the time, and as I can connect via my G range extender. It's up to iRex to sort it out I reckon.

Not even a thread to see which N-based routers are affected...?