Regional restrictions now in the UK

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by wallflower75

Yeah, but no one has a problem with my ordering the hardcover from Amazon.co.uk. So why should an ebook be any different?

There's something unsound in the "public" interpretation copyright laws regarding exportation, I suppose.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by reader22

This scheme only applies in certain countries - the UK being one. In other countries like the US for instance there is no such scheme. So there is no compensation to authors for when you borrow a book. So it is exactly the same as downloading.

Mojoe, however, is in the UK, so if he borrows a book from the library, the author of that book receives a payment. I repeat my question: Moejoe states that downloading a book is no different to borrowing from the library, so how, given that he states this to be the case, does the author receive their PLR payment?

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by wallflower75

What I don't get about the whole territorial restrictions crap is the fact that it's costing the author a sale. I realize it's a legal issue, but what author, publisher, or bookseller really wants that in this economy? I would think you'd want your ebook available to as wide an audience as possible.

It's the new 21st century major publishing business model.

Deliberately sell fewer books.

I tell ya, not many people would have thought that one up!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by wallflower75

Yeah, but no one has a problem with my ordering the hardcover from Amazon.co.uk. So why should an ebook be any different?

It's a legal thing. If you buy a paper book, the "point of sale" is deemed to be the bookstore; if you buy an eBook, the point of sale is the customer's computer.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a legal thing. If you buy a paper book, the "point of sale" is deemed to be the bookstore; if you buy an eBook, the point of sale is the customer's computer.

Or the bank that issues the credit card that the buyer chooses to use

[stustaff]

or where you buy the gift certificate from!

We need to set up a present giving service!

I give someone £40 of waterstones/whsmiths etc vouchers they give me $60(or equiv) of sony vouchers...

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by stustaff

or where you buy the gift certificate from!

We need to set up a present giving service!

I give someone £40 of waterstones/whsmiths etc vouchers they give me $60(or equiv) of sony vouchers...

Very good idea

[Sparrow]

Oops, post deleted - Wallflower75 already made the same point previously.

[macminer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a legal thing. If you buy a paper book, the "point of sale" is deemed to be the bookstore; if you buy an eBook, the point of sale is the customer's computer.

Which only demonstrates how surreal "legal things" are, especially when some kind of outdated legal thinking is applied to a realm where it doesn't belong.

Imagine I send the seller, located outside my country, a message with an order for an ebook. And he sends me the ebook back by email. Where is the "point of sale"? Is it my email account or theirs? What if I used my business email account, which is located on a German soil, with .de domain, while travelling through Switzerland, the seller is from the USA and, incidentally, I am a Portuguese with double citizenship?

Or, let's try another model: I phone the seller, he takes down my CC number and gives me a unique code to enter on a web page and download my book. The web page, for the sake of the argument, might be located still elsewhere, in a third country. Or, better still, I the purchaser, am located in Poland, the seller company in the USA, their customer phone support was moved to India and the web server is in the Netherlands. What real sense does the "point of sale" have? It is only a legalistic concept to make things difficult. Why won't it be enough if both sides simply agree that the transaction is governed by "the laws of the vendor country" and that's it...

BTW, I am not arguing that from the legalistic point of view the "point of sale" concept isn't valid when applied to over the air transactions, but that it doesn't make much sense from the pragmatic point of view and it actualy impedes such transactions .

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by macminer

BTW, I am not arguing that from the legalistic point of view the "point of sale" concept isn't valid when applied to over the air transactions, but that it doesn't make much sense from the pragmatic point of view and it actualy impedes such transactions .

I'm with you on that. At this point, restrictions do seem to be quite arbitrary. (How many times I bought on iTunes FR with my French cc when I was here? uhm.)

[sianon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a legal thing. If you buy a paper book, the "point of sale" is deemed to be the bookstore; if you buy an eBook, the point of sale is the customer's computer.

In regard to fictionwise or Books on Board, both take the country address from the credit card used and use this to determine if you can buy from the store. I reside in Australia with an Australian credit card, now should I be holidaying in America and decide I need a fix of new reading material, I log on to the net through some wireless connection, I am in America, using an American internet service, however due to having an Australian Credit card would not be able to make a purchase. How in gods name is this a sensible business model.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Why do I insult them? Because they insulted me, because they accused me of theft when they don't have the first clue of what they're talking about. I'm never courteous to halfwits and buffoons.

Question answered?

I never accused anyone of theft -- I just stated the obvious, that taking something that one has no right to take is theft. Unlike Moejoe , I never made any personal attacks. Presenting one's personal opinion as fact and stating that everyone that thinks differently "doesn't have a clue" doesn't leave much room for a serious discussion.

And I have no idea where Moejoe gets his deep seated hatred of corporations, after all corporations are just groups of people, too. Including many regular employees, who all depend on their salaries for their livelihoods. In the end, such an attitude hurts everybody, because more and more people will depend on income from digital goods.

We all hate regional restrictions, but even if we have no way around them, just taking things is not the answer.

[nomesque]

Originally Posted by sianon

In regard to fictionwise or Books on Board, both take the country address from the credit card used and use this to determine if you can buy from the store. I reside in Australia with an Australian credit card, now should I be holidaying in America and decide I need a fix of new reading material, I log on to the net through some wireless connection, I am in America, using an American internet service, however due to having an Australian Credit card would not be able to make a purchase. How in gods name is this a sensible business model.

... and it's possible that you wouldn't be able to purchase from a store back home, as you'd have a US IP address...



So, how do we convince the world's authors to all move to Internet-age publishers? Will they follow the smell of cookies?

[Deneb]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I never accused anyone of theft -- I just stated the obvious, that taking something that one has no right to take is theft. Unlike Moejoe , I never made any personal attacks.

And I have no idea where Moejoe gets his deep seated hatred of corporations, after all corporations are just groups of people, too. Including many regular employees, who all depend on their salaries for their livelihoods. In the end, such an attitude hurts everybody, because more and more people will depend on income from digital goods.

Well, you did accused everyone using the darknet of theft, it wasn't personal, but it was an accusation...I don't approve of Moejoe way of saying thing, insulting people only make them defensive and doesn't help the discussion; but I have to aggre with some of his points.

It's true that corporation's employees depend on their salaries, but so did the street lamp-lighter or stagecoach drivers should we still pay for them?
I don't see why I should pay for the printing, transport, physical sell place, then transport back to where non-sold books are destroyed and the destruction itself when I buy an ebook. Sorry, there is no convincing me of "secret costs" as publishers here in France are trying to do for ebooks. Either I see the price drop either I'am being robbed...

Theft is bad, I agree on that, and if a download is not necessary a lost sell, part of them are, anything else is langage trick. But, Why always the one sided point of view? The bad pirates and the pooooor author? It's so tiring.

Why nobody is ever saying publishers have been robbing us for years and are hoping to keep on doing just so. For exemple, why do I pay public domain pbooks the same price as a new copyrighted pbooK? I never question the system before internet...
Why, if a new pback can be sold for less than 6$, should I feel happy to pay 10$ for the ebook version?
Again why should ebook buyers support the system that print them? Let the print-version buyers do that and it can be me sometimes when I buy a pbook.

Some authors/publishers realised that and they won a loyal pool of custumers that are happy to pay a fair price for what they like.
The success of itunes, proves that, given a fair (at least more fair) choice, people DO pay for what they enjoy. They are not stupid or utterly dishonnest despite what the publishers (and majors) seems to think, (which is hurtful) but, who likes to be robbed? I don't like it more then they do...

Then, here in France, Publishers are trying to make the ebook, not a version of a book, but a side product of it, allowing them to pay not 50% to the author but 25%...If this pass, an ebook is no longer a book and there is no copyright infringement from its download, is there...

Regional restrictions, high prices of ebook versions of new books prove that publishers do not see ebooks as books and they are trying all they can to force us to keep on reading pbook...They should go back to the origin of their job: editing book, helping author, choosing them. Publishing has to be separated especialy with those book-printers "on the demand" that are comming. Then the war they are fighting won't need to be anymore.

Sorry for this long post. Thank you for getting to the end of it

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by Tuna

Nonsense.

What one particular book store chooses to do does not give you the right to rip off the author of the book. Find a store that will sell to you, or don't buy the book, but there is absolutely no excuse for being a thief.

Sure. But I feel entirely justified in buying a second hand print copy, specifically so I can read the book without the publisher seeing a single penny from me.

I won't go back to sites which refuse to sell for me for several years, either.