Regional restrictions now in the UK

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Do you think that British publisher complained about USA publishers selling e-books to non American people, now it's in the other way?

Can be everything absurd, it's absurd.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Juliette

Very good idea. Also, at least they'd give us some real reason, instead of just shutting people off like that. (At least we could find a workaround, knowing the rules!)

And point then to mobileread so they can read these posts too

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Tuna

Nonsense.

What one particular book store chooses to do does not give you the right to rip off the author of the book. Find a store that will sell to you, or don't buy the book, but there is absolutely no excuse for being a thief.

It's a really really good thing that copying a digital file is not theft then, isn't it? Maybe, maybe it's copyright infringement, if you believe in such antiquated things, but it certainly isn't theft.

[tech_au]

WH Smiths have obviously employed IP Address look up because the error message occurs as soon as you click Checkout before you have entered any payment details.
The only way I think you can get around that is to use an anonymous proxy from the UK which is a lot of effort to buy an ebook. Too bad if you are a UK citizen on holidays overseas.
The restriction appears to be only some ebooks, the offending ones are published by Harper Collins so they may be the "bad guys" in the UK. I was able to purchase a Hachette title without problem.
Oh well. looks like Waterstones have gained a customer even though they are a little dearer than WH Smiths.

[fugazied]

Not only have they often briefly 'lost a customer' when they do it, they often permanently lose a sale because the customer goes to the pirate bay or somewhere.

If you don't give customers an easy and efficient way to get the material they want they will get it elsewhere, it's Internet sales 101, the publishers are having a hard time adjusting to it with their regional publishing contracts.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's a really really good thing that copying a digital file is not theft then, isn't it? Maybe, maybe it's copyright infringement, if you believe in such antiquated things, but it certainly isn't theft.

Theft by any other name is still theft. When you take something that you have no right to, call it what you will it is wrong. All legal jargon aside, the reason we are all saddled with DRM is because some people refuse to admit it is wrong.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Theft by any other name is still theft. When you take something that you have no right to, call it what you will it is wrong. All legal jargon aside, the reason we are all saddled with DRM is because some people refuse to admit it is wrong.

Absolute and total utter bollox. We have DRM because the companies want to control what you can and cannot do with what you purchase. They want to enforce the same 'scarcity' that exists in the physical world, upon the digital. And you repeat that crap like a good little consumer. Shame on you, shame.

And this isn't about legal jargon, its about basic and fundamental usage of the English language.


Theft is the taking of something that causes deprivation.

Copying is duplication without deprivation.

You cannot steal a digital copy, it is impossible.

[HansTWN]

I certainly don't feel ashamed for defending others' rights. You are hurting publishers and authors by making/downloading illegal copies (you are asking everybody to work for free for your pleasure), if you are fine with that or don't see it that way, then there is no basis to continue this argument.

The only thing I can agree with you on is that usage rights are too restrictive. A buyer should have all the rights he or she has with a pbook. If publishers and authors didn't fear illegal copying they wouldn't use DRM (ineffective as it may be, in most cases). We can't stop technological development, easy copying of digital content will always be possible. But we can change users' attitudes, everybody must realize that unauthorized copying is wrong.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I certainly don't feel ashamed for defending others' rights. You are hurting publishers and authors by making/downloading illegal copies (you are asking everybody to work for free for your pleasure), if you are fine with that or don't see it that way, then there is no basis to continue this argument.

The only thing I can agree with you on is that usage rights are too restrictive. A buyer should have all the rights he or she has with a pbook. If publishers and authors didn't fear illegal copying they wouldn't use DRM (ineffective as it may be, in most cases). We can't stop technological development, easy copying of digital content will always be possible. But we can change users' attitudes, everybody must realize that unauthorized copying is wrong.

I am no more hurting publishers by downloading a file than I am if I visited the library, borrowed a book from a friend or found one (as I did the other day) on the seat of a bus. They may have gained a sale though, in the long run, they may have made me a fan, but what they have never lost is money. You can't lose what wasn't there to begin with. And there is no need to further this argument, because this isn't necessarily an argument. You haven't actually made a cogent statement yet, or taken a position that isn't instantly laughable in the face of ten years of circumnvented DRM, ever increasing numbers of file sharers, and industries that are still turning a profit (despite the so-called scourge of piracy).

The only rights you're defending are the rights of the corporations to charge you over and over and over again for exactly the same product. The rights of the rich to get richer. If you think you're doing a damn thing for authors or the creative community, then think again. You want to help authors, read some that aren't published by the mainstream. Share their works with others, but don't come all White Knight on the net to defend something as laughable and outmoded as DRM or copyright, it'll make you look like a fool.

[Juliette]

Originally Posted by fugazied

Not only have they often briefly 'lost a customer' when they do it, they often permanently lose a sale because the customer goes to the pirate bay or somewhere.

In this case: somewhere else. But still, they won't buy from you anymore.

If you don't give customers an easy and efficient way to get the material they want they will get it elsewhere, it's Internet sales 101, the publishers are having a hard time adjusting to it with their regional publishing contracts.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

... don't come all White Knight on the net to defend something as laughable and outmoded as DRM or copyright, it'll make you look like a fool.

Why do you insult people you debate with?
You may have some good points to make, but (imo) you discourage people from taking them seriously by being gratuitously discourteous.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's a really really good thing that copying a digital file is not theft then, isn't it? Maybe, maybe it's copyright infringement, if you believe in such antiquated things, but it certainly isn't theft.

Well, ebooks here aren't books at all, they are an electronic service...

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I certainly don't feel ashamed for defending others' rights. You are hurting publishers and authors by making/downloading illegal copies (you are asking everybody to work for free for your pleasure), if you are fine with that or don't see it that way, then there is no basis to continue this argument.

I'd love to pay for books from my favourite authors. Sadly, they (aka the publishers) won't allow me to. They don't sell the books I want in my region, and I can't buy them from another region. And you really find it strange that people will go find other ways to get their book?

Example: I love Robert J. Sawyer. He has written some excellent books, the series I love the most is the Neanderthal Parallax. I bought books one and two (after having downloaded them from the darknet a few years ago!) but when book three finally was available, I couldn't buy it. Only sold in the region US. I'd love to replace my "illegal" version of the book, but they won't allow me, unless I lie. Which is also illegal, because you're not allowed to lie about your location.

Another example: the Lost Symbol, by Dan Brown. I wanted to buy that book, but couldn't. At WHSmith (where maybe I can buy it, maybe not, as they don't mention geographical restrictions at all) it is for sale in epub format. I have absolutely no use for epub format. At fictionwise, where I've been going to for over 5 years now, it's for sale in ereader format, which I like much better, as I can read that on my WinCE device, I can't buy it because of geographical restrictions. I did lie about my country and still had to go to the darknet to find a copy of the book because I couldn't download it, even though I have bought it!

I don't think people here want to go to the darknet, I think most people here want to buy their books and read them. But the global market is making that impossible for a lot of honest people.

[EowynCarter]

Mail sent to WH Smiths after bumping on the annoying message.

Hi,

I try to buy some e-book, and problem.
"" One or more of the titles in your shopping cart is/are not available for purchase due to publisher/author territorial restrictions. We apologise for this inconvenience. ""

So, you don't sell in france anymore ? Why it is that so ? That sad, and totally stupid, as I ask noting but to buy books from you... Should be simple right ? In the meantime, i'll get books from peoples who have enough senses not to tell their customers "We don't want to sell to you".

Catherine Hurbain.

I am no more hurting publishers by downloading a file than I am if I visited the library, borrowed a book from a friend or found one (as I did the other day) on the seat of a bus. They may have gained a sale though, in the long run, they may have made me a fan, but what they have never lost is money. You can't lose what wasn't there to begin with. And there is no need to further this argument, because this isn't necessarily an argument. You haven't actually made a cogent statement yet, or taken a position that isn't instantly laughable in the face of ten years of circumnvented DRM, ever increasing numbers of file sharers, and industries that are still turning a profit (despite the so-called scourge of piracy).

It's true that one download is not necessarily a lost sale. Sometimes the contrary. Hey, i began reading Harry potter with a .txt on my calculator screen. Result is I now own more copies of the HP books than i need.
And drm, regional restrictions, that's encouraging piracy.

I'm going to quote Joe Abercrombie because he SO got it right. Especially the part in bold.

My own feeling about e-piracy and so forth is that it's virtually impossible to put a stop to - the more popular you are the more torrents will endlessly spring up, and most of them in places where folks don't respond to a polite email. The only effective way to combat it is to provide people with a higher quality service than pirates do, more easily available and at a price that seems reasonable. Then I think most will be happy to pay.

WH Smiths have regional restriction, seams BookOnBeard too. That left only waterstones. But what happens the day waterstones decide to put on regional restrictions ? I can't buy e-books anymore. (French publishers won't provide me with book in english...)

I'd love to pay for books from my favourite authors. Sadly, they (aka the publishers) won't allow me to. They don't sell the books I want in my region, and I can't buy them from another region. And you really find it strange that people will go find other ways to get their book?

Yeap. I don't want crappy darknet versions, or go back to paper book, but the way things are going, i might not have a choice about that anymore sometimes soon...

[Juliette]

DRM and regional restrictions are poor customer service. For the rest I subscribe to Joe Abercrombie too. The moment I was able to purchase from the iTMS, that moment I stopped "getting" music from friends.

[300com]

Maybe the authors themselves should sell their own books themselves on their own website !