What is piracy?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

I'm curious why you specified that the online copy you downloaded was not a torrent. What does the download method matter?

Because you also upload when you are using a torrent?

[Joshua.P]

You guys are really strange you know that? It doesn't effect anyone, and thus is victimless because I wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway if I didn't happen to download the torrent. So my viewing the movie a repeat time doesn't do anything. And all my uploading is only going to make another persons download 1 second faster.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

You guys are really strange you know that? It doesn't effect anyone, and thus is victimless because I wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway if I didn't happen to download the torrent. So my viewing the movie a repeat time doesn't do anything. And all my uploading is only going to make another persons download 1 second faster.

It does effect someone. It effects you in that you feel that you have to justify your actions and hope to have them applauded by a bunch of strangers on an internet forum.

And morally it is the same as buying any goods and stealing another because you already bought one.

Many people lose out, the creator, the distributer, the employees involved in distribution etc.

If you would not have bought the DVD why download the torrent. I would never buy a Rolls Royce or a souvenier bumper sticker, but neither would I just arbitrarily decide to take one and think it was ok.

Helen

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

You guys are really strange you know that? It doesn't effect anyone, and thus is victimless because I wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway if I didn't happen to download the torrent. So my viewing the movie a repeat time doesn't do anything. And all my uploading is only going to make another persons download 1 second faster.

No, it's not even a matter of strange, it's a matter of ethics and doing the right thing.

And you say you wouldn't buy it, but I don't think I believe you, you clearly wanted it enough to steal it.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

You guys are really strange you know that? It doesn't effect anyone, and thus is victimless because I wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway if I didn't happen to download the torrent.

If strange means being in the minority, you are strange in seeing avoidance of victimization as the be all and end all of morality. Most people see victimization as extremely important in coming up with rules of morality, but there is more to it than that. For example, commonplace conventional morality (and law) does not allow evidence that remaining books of a particular title were about to be pulped as a defense for shoplifting.

Trespassing is another example of a victimless action most people think is wrong.

Of course, most people can be wrong! I don't think strange moral reasoning is necessarily bad moral reasoning. But since you apparently do, by your own standard, you should oppose piracy. Especially book piracy, which I suspect has even less popular support than downloading movies.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

For example, commonplace conventional morality (and law) does not allow evidence that remaining books of a particular title were about to be pulped as a defense for shoplifting.

Would taking the scrambled text out of the landfill and reconstituting it into its original form constitute piracy? That is of course a highly unlikely situation, but we are all familiar with the if this book is being sold without a cover, it means someone dug it out of the trash and is reselling it thing.

[forcheville]

The only way I know of effecting someone is the good old-fashioned way - almost more fun than reading a book.

On the other hand there are all sorts of ways of affecting people. E.g. annoying them with pedantry... or pettifogging defenses of the indefensible.

Effect (v.t.): to produce as an effect; bring about; accomplish; make happen...

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

I'm curious why you specified that the online copy you downloaded was not a torrent. What does the download method matter?

If I'd used a torrent, I'd also be "guilty" of distributing the material--at least I thought someone might say that. So I wanted to specify that I didn't engage in any distribution whatsoever; I only took advantage of someone's upload.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Joshua.P

You guys are really strange you know that? It doesn't effect anyone, and thus is victimless because I wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway if I didn't happen to download the torrent. So my viewing the movie a repeat time doesn't do anything. And all my uploading is only going to make another persons download 1 second faster.

You are the strange one. You take something you have absolutely no right to take, and then you feel that you are not even doing anything wrong. If you wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway, why not just watch something else? People worked hard to provide you with entertainment and you don't reward them for it.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

You are the strange one. You take something you have absolutely no right to take, and then you feel that you are not even doing anything wrong. If you wouldn't have bought the DVD anyway, why not just watch something else? People worked hard to provide you with entertainment and you don't reward them for it.

No sir, you are the stranger one. For feeling that anyone has a right to a work of artistic expression. These works are owned by all.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

No sir, you are the stranger one. For feeling that anyone has a right to a work of artistic expression. These works are owned by all.

Says who in the free world? You Sir are advocating making people produce stuff with no payment. Slavery! The artists have rights and we should respect them and stand up for them.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Catlady

If I'd used a torrent, I'd also be "guilty" of distributing the material--at least I thought someone might say that. So I wanted to specify that I didn't engage in any distribution whatsoever; I only took advantage of someone's upload.

Making you only half guilty?

Helen

[Joshua.P]

Why are you making such a big fuss HansTWN? I saw the movie at the cinema, so I already rewarded the creator. Whats the big deal if I download to watch it again? And piracy isn't hurting any industry in the slightest. Profits are bigger than ever these days. Just see how much The Avengers made.

[jjmgreen]

1. Copying - yes, it is piracy if you do not already own the book, and
if the book is not in public domain
2. Scanning - if you keep the paper copy, not piracy, else piracy.
3. Distribution - piracy.
4. Downloading something, because you saw it somewhere - piracy.
If you find something worth viewing again, it has some value to
you, and you should exchange value for value. The medium of
exchange is currency.

No, Giggleton is not trolling, he is just making sure any newcomers
are aware of his position - that the time and effort of content
creators has no measurable worth.

Look folks, real people made the content. They are rarely even
well-compensated for it as is, piracy reduces their compensation
even more (assuming they even get a commission per sale, which
is mostly true for print, rarely true for movies, as I understand).
You can go on and on that making a digital copy of a digital or
physical distribution of a work isn't taking the original from anyone,
so there's no harm, but if you value the work enough to get the
copy, then you should contribute value to the creators and
distributors. The value you should contribute (price) is often
set by the distributor, and usually decays over time. If you
feel the initial price is too high, then wait. If you must have
it now, pay the get-it-now price. If you don't want to pay,
let someone else pay, then ask to borrow (not copy) it - from
a library, from a friend, or a social group. If a creator *wants*
people to have free access to the work, then the creator can
choose to place the work in the public domain.

[Joshua.P]

Originally Posted by jjmgreen

They are rarely even
well-compensated for it as is, piracy reduces their compensation
even more

What is your stance if I already have a paper copy huh? Isn't the creator already compensated and as such it shouldn't matter if I download the ebook?