French Government Thinks Amazon Is Too Customer Friendly

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pl001

I find the practices of Amazon customers to typically be just as questionable as Amazon itself. Customers usually do not pay local taxes on their purchases. Just because Amazon does not collect them does not mean you don't have to pay them.

A curious comment. Why do you say that Amazon don't collect taxes? They certainly collect VAT from me.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Amazon pays no or next-to-no corporate tax on massive sales and profits. I applaud the French government's stand against Amazon's hugely immoral tax-avoidance policy. It is deeply saddening that the governments of the UK and the USA allow these near-criminal practices to continue.

This is just wrong. Amazon doesn't have "massive" profits. Amazon doesn't make "BILLIONS" in profits as you asserted in a previous post.

Amazon lost money in 2012, and made a few million dollars in 2011. It is a *barely* profitable company...and profits are paid on a company's profits, not its revenue.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Amazon lost money in 2012, and made a few million dollars in 2011. It is a *barely* profitable company...and taxes are paid on a company's profits, not its revenue.

Fixed that for ya.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Amazon pays no or next-to-no corporate tax on massive sales and profits. I applaud the French government's stand against Amazon's hugely immoral tax-avoidance policy. It is deeply saddening that the governments of the UK and the USA allow these near-criminal practices to continue.

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

There, fixed that for you. Whatever your opinion is of their morality, the facts are that they are operating within the law when it comes to how much and where to pay taxes.

The only way to fix things, in a non-discriminatory manner, would be to change tax laws

Well said, and I agree completely.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by pl001

I find the practices of Amazon customers to typically be just as questionable as Amazon itself. Customers usually do not pay local taxes on their purchases. Just because Amazon does not collect them does not mean you don't have to pay them.

My biggest issue with Amazon right now is how many knock-offs are being passed off as OEM products. It's getting as bad as eBay, where you can't trust what you buy is what you will receive.

While you're probably safe generalizing, it's certainly not true of all of Amazon's customers - or *any* website or catalog company's customers. I claim and pay my state-required online/catalog shopping taxes for companies that don't collect them.

I'd much rather have my roads in reasonable repair and have police and fire adequately staffed than keep a couple hundred extra bucks per year in my pocket.

[Ansileran]

Originally Posted by JD Gumby

Or, more likely, they're using up the same part of the price that physical chain book stores use to cover shipping to their own storefronts (as well as carriage, of course - have to account for the book sitting there on the shelf for a while instead of something that might sell immediately).

I guess that depends on how you look at it then. Amazon (and the Fnac and probably many others) is still providing an additional service on the price of the book which is supposed to be a selling price only. Delivery being a post sale service, it can be argued that free shipping acts as an additional discount. I don't see how we would be better off having to pay for delivery though...

Of course, I don't see why publishers set the price for the final sale, as long as they are paid the agreed upon sum per book... but that's another topic ^^

[Ansileran]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

This is just wrong. Amazon doesn't have "massive" profits. Amazon doesn't make "BILLIONS" in profits as you asserted in a previous post.

Amazon lost money in 2012, and made a few million dollars in 2011. It is a *barely* profitable company...and profits are paid on a company's profits, not its revenue.

Well, nothing to worry about then. If it's not profitable, it will go bankrupt in a few years

Maybe buyers of Amazon's Kindle and e-books should worry though... What happens to your wonderfully cloud stored e-books when Amazon goes bankrupt? What the use of your "locked to Amazon's format" Kindle?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ansileran

Of course, I don't see why publishers set the price for the final sale, as long as they are paid the agreed upon sum per book... but that's another topic ^^

Because that would defeat the whole point of fixed pricing, which is to provide a level playing field for small independent booksellers. Supermarkets, etc, could afford to sell bestsellers at essentially cost price (as they do in the UK, for example).

The abolition of fixed pricing in the UK has resulted in in the almost complete disappearance of independent bookshops. I'm not saying that the deep discounting done by Amazon UK hasn't been a good thing for the consumer, but if the premise is that independent bookshops are good for society, then what's happened in the UK is a graphic illustration of the effect of a free market.

[Nothingness]

Well in my case I'm also affected by the french publishers and I think they're wrong. I live in Quebec, my mother language is French, which is the case of the majority of the population here (6 millions of Francophones in Quebec). French books are expensive, translations in French from other languages even more expensive, and ebooks are even more expensive. The french publishers don't want the Francophony to buy ebooks and ereaders, they want the population to keep on buying expensive books.

I've decided to boycott the french publishers by not buying books and ebooks in French anymore, but get the original versions instead (or in English). Most of books I read are from Americans or UK anyway, so I just get the original book. As for the French, they have not written much anything good since the beginning of the 20th century, so 99% of the good french books are copyright free.

As for Amazon, with their free shipping, there are a lot of people happy about that. Well, I don't buy my books at Amazon but Chapters Indigo in Canada, and they have free shipping too. I'm sick and disabled and I was often too tired each time I went to a Chapters Indigo store in downtown, with really heavy books. So now I order my books online and it's much better for me. So I'm guessing there are other disabled people, elders, or those who live in regions with no stores, who are happy those services. Why should they be punished?

[Ansileran]

@HarryT:
Supermarket would never sell anything but best-sellers. There are many types of books that are sold and could still be sold by small independant bookstores. They would just have to re-think their offer. Also, the point of small bookstores is that they are conveniently situated (or specialized but if that's the case, they don't compete with supermarkets). Supermarket can't compete with that...

@Nothingness:
Perhaps being in Canada has made you miss most of the last century's French literature? Have you read Jean D'Aillon? Jean-François Parot? Michel Honaker? Christian Grenier? Marie-Aude Murail? If they are not your style, I'm sure I can find something else!
French book (paperback) aren't that explensive (in France), neither are translations. Maybe they are expensive in Canada because they are shipped there instead of being published there? Books in foreign languages are often much more expensive here... For books in Chinese, I have seen 6 yuan become 13€...
I'll agree though that most French publishers are doing their best to destroy the e-book industry here. E-books used to be priced the same as hardcover books. It's getting better though, probably because there is pressure from... Amazon ^^

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ansileran

@HarryT:
Supermarket would never sell anything but best-sellers. There are many types of books that are sold and could still be sold by small independant bookstores. They would just have to re-think their offer. Also, the point of small bookstores is that they are conveniently situated (or specialized but if that's the case, they don't compete with supermarkets). Supermarket can't compete with that...

You're right - the supermarkets do indeed only sell "bestsellers". However, it's the bestsellers that form the bulk of any bookshop's sales, and if the supermarkets take those sales away from the independent bookshop by selling at prices that they can't match, the end result is that the bookshop can't stay in business (unless they're a specialist in some area, perhaps).

That's what's happened in the UK in the years since the "net book agreement" - fixed book pricing - was abolished in 1995. The overwhelming majority of independent bookshops have gone out of business, or been taken over by Waterstones, the big retail chain which dominates here.

For people for buy on the Internet that's not a problem - Amazon have great prices and a great selection - but if you want to buy books in a physical bookshop, your choice is now far more restricted than it was 20 years ago.

[vxf]

I grew up in Italy, which also has draconian laws protecting independent bookstores.
The result is expensive books and difficulty to find the titles you want.

Long live Amazon, free shipping, competition, and economies of scale.
If someone wants to support small bookstores, I hope they would do it with their own money, not with mine.

I am sorry for the people of France, or Italy, or any other place where stupid government policy keeps literature expensive.

[Nothingness]

Perhaps being in Canada has made you miss most of the last century's French literature? Have you read Jean D'Aillon? Jean-François Parot? Michel Honaker? Christian Grenier? Marie-Aude Murail? If they are not your style, I'm sure I can find something else!
French book (paperback) aren't that explensive (in France), neither are translations. Maybe they are expensive in Canada because they are shipped there instead of being published there? Books in foreign languages are often much more expensive here... For books in Chinese, I have seen 6 yuan become 13€...
I'll agree though that most French publishers are doing their best to destroy the e-book industry here. E-books used to be priced the same as hardcover books. It's getting better though, probably because there is pressure from... Amazon ^^

I studied french literature ("Literature and medias", I picked Cinema) in Cegep (College?) for two years and like I said, up to the Romantic and Symbolist eras french literature was awesome. After that not so much, like the Dadaism, Naturalism (Zola makes me falls asleep) and Surrealism, but I really love Les Chants de Maldoror by Comte de Lautréamont which is a masterpieve of surrealisme.

[Ansileran]

@Nothingness
Ah, so they haven't written anything you like since then. Doesn't mean there isn't "anything good"... There is more to French literature than what is studied in literature classes though, or we would all die of boredom around here ^^ (not that those books are boring, just not numerous enoug). But I guess that, if it's a hassle to get them abroad, you can just pick something local...
Have you tried Zola's early works? I thought "L'assommoir" deserved its name but "La fortune des Rougons" and the following fews were quite enjoyable.

[MattW]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The UK government has no choice in the matter; it has to abide by EU tax law, which makes it perfectly legal to move profits between EU member states. This is something that was discussed in the recent G8 Summit meeting in Northern Ireland. But unless or until EU law is changed, I strongly disagree with your assertion that it's "near-criminal" to act in accordance with the law. Blame the law, not the people who obey it.

Your world-view is ridiculously clear-cut. First, despite what the US Supreme Court might want you to believe, corporations are not "people".

Secondly, by lobbying lawmakers, corporations get the laws they want; so more often than not, "the people [I can't even quote this without throwing up a little in my mouth] who obey it" actually make "the law" -- either illegaly or semi-legally or by blackmail ("if we do not get the tax breaks we want, we'll take our jobs elsewhere").

You're damn right, I'm blaming Amazon (and all the other corporations). And rightly so -- the artificial distinction that you make between "the law" and the stupid EU on the one side and the poor corporations on the other side is pretty naive at best or outright disingenious at worst. I don't know which.