12-11-2012, 12:12 PM | #31 |
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I expect best buy deliberately sent extra ipads and told them to keep them as a PR stunt They're getting press from it and I bet people will order from there just in case they can get lucky too...
May turn out the be the cheapest advert they've paid for |
12-11-2012, 02:03 PM | #32 | |
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If you live in Pennsylvania, and you come into control of another person's property (whether this other person is the intended recipient or the sender) that is delivered by mistake "as to the nature or amount of the property" (in other words, the cashier gave you too much change), or "the identity of the recipient" (in other words, the wrong addressee or address), you are committing a crime. State law can criminalize behavior that federal law does not (just not the other way around). And "delivery" does not mean "delivered through the mail or some other postal-type service", it just means possession transfers from one person to another (as in "drug delivery"). But, as stated before, the recipient has not committed a crime if she/he takes "reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it". If they tell you to keep it, or ignore your report of mistaken delivery, you're in the clear. There has to be an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the property. Last edited by hrosvit; 12-11-2012 at 02:06 PM. |
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12-11-2012, 07:13 PM | #33 | |||
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The law in PA that you referenced appears to cover only misdeliveries. The attorney general's website for Pennsylvania confirms that consumers in that state who receive unsolicited merchandise addressed to them are not required to return the items: Quote:
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The law may appear to favor consumers, but it's there to prevent unscrupulous companies from hounding people for payment for goods never ordered. --Pat Last edited by PatNY; 12-11-2012 at 11:48 PM. |
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12-11-2012, 10:23 PM | #34 |
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You provided the same link for both.
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12-11-2012, 11:49 PM | #35 |
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12-12-2012, 04:01 AM | #36 | |
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1) 5% cash back from discover 2) rewards 3) generous returns policy 4) generous price match policy 5) instore pickup 6) instore returns |
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12-12-2012, 08:32 AM | #37 | |
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The concept of mistake deals with a product that is sent to the wrong location, or (as in this case) in an incorrect amount. Best Buy is not attempting to get you to buy five iPads by sending them to you; they just screwed up and sent five, when you only ordered one. The extra four are goods delivered by mistake, not as an attempt to obligate you to pay for them in the future. The PA law requires that you make an attempt to return them to the rightful owner; if they refuse or don't respond, then the items belong to you. Additionally, the portion of the USPS website you linked to again deals with things that were deliberately sent to you, and states that you are not obligated to pay for them. It does not deal with things delivered by mistake at all. Last edited by hrosvit; 12-12-2012 at 08:35 AM. |
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12-12-2012, 11:39 AM | #38 | |||
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1) mistakes that occur during the delivery process (or misdeliveries) 2) mistakes that occur during order processing (processing mistakes) such as the one that resulted in the customer getting 5 ipads from Best Buy and in which no delivery mistake is involved. The portion of the PA AG's website I linked to does not cover misdeliveries. But it likely covers processing mistakes. Otherwise, any company sending consumers unsolicited items with the intent to get them to buy could merely claim as a defense that it was a processing error and get away with their tactics. So the law is interpreted broadly on behalf of consumers to protect them. And sites such as The Consumerist, which was part of the original story, are also reading the law this way. One would have to look at case law to see if this specific issue has come up in the past, but a brief search fails to show instances where a company has successfully sued to get back merchandise it included by mistake in an order. I suspect that's why companies normally don't ask for the merchandise back. Because the law is not on their side. That doesn't mean they never ask for it back. They just usually don't. Quote:
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--Pat |
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12-12-2012, 11:42 AM | #39 |
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12-12-2012, 12:08 PM | #40 | |
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12-12-2012, 12:35 PM | #41 | |
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A quick search of the interweb shows that several other states (AZ, MD, KY, NJ, etc.) all have statutes that are worded almost exactly the same as PA's. We will probably have to agree to disagree. I realize this was just an intellectual exercise, rather than a specific forumite asking for advice, but we're all aware that legal advice obtained on a e-reading forum is worth exactly what was paid for it. And that is not a snide remark about your advice; I'm talking about mine. I do have experience with the PA Crimes Code, but that doesn't mean I'm right. In conclusion, I'll post the entire PA statute, so that anyone interested can evaluate it on their own: "18 Pa.C.S.A. § 3924 A person who comes into control of property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient is guilty of theft if, with intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it." I think that the phrase "delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property" is directly applicable in this situation - she ordered one iPad, and five were shipped. That's a mistake as to the amount of the property. |
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12-12-2012, 01:42 PM | #42 | ||||
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And, yes, we do have a disagreement on how the law views "processing errors." We also have a disagreement about the usage of the term "deliberate deliveries" as the instance with the iPads should be considered a "deliberate delivery" (albeit following a screw up in processing). And while you consider "delivered under a mistake" in the PA statute to include processing errors, I believe it refers strictly to delivery mistakes. Quote:
Keep in mind that the The Consumerist site agrees with my take on the law. They said in no uncertain terms that it was legal for the customer to keep the iPads without making any effort to return them. I realize that laws can differ among many states, but I would be surprised if PA law was in direct conflict with federal law on this matter. Quote:
--Pat |
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12-12-2012, 02:17 PM | #43 |
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12-12-2012, 03:03 PM | #44 | |
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--Pat |
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12-13-2012, 05:56 AM | #45 |
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The OP propositioned that we should shop Best Buy because they might make a mistake that would benefit us. I don't think hoping for an error is a good reason to shop somewhere. Best Buy happens to be a great place to shop even when they are not making errors. If you shop there, pretty soon you will actually be able to afford to buy a tablet with money so you will not need to wrestle with the ethics of benefiting from an error.
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