Months of Runaround From KDP Support: Font Embedding Fails...HELP!

[V_Shaft]

@Hitch
I understand, really. In fact, we're probably competition of sorts, me living in one of those 3rd world countries you mentioned and just starting an e-book design and formatting service.

Just curious, though, if you can disclose it: did your solution involve fiddling with the CSS, HTML, a combination of the two, or something else entirely?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by V_Shaft

@Hitch
I understand, really. In fact, we're probably competition of sorts, me living in one of those 3rd world countries you mentioned and just starting an e-book design and formatting service.

Just curious, though, if you can disclose it: did your solution involve fiddling with the CSS, HTML, a combination of the two, or something else entirely?

Well, V_Shaft:

Best of luck with your endeavors. I fear that you've picked a rather late-ish time to get into the business; the last 7 years have been the biggest quantity of books. You can take this statement as self-interested if you like, but I get not less than 3-7 emails a week now (up from 1/week 6 mos ago, up from 1/month last year, etc.), from India, etc., all looking for more work, because their eBook businesses are dropping like flies as the massive backlog of backlist and scanned books is mostly done. Two of the "first-in" businesses here in the States have closed their doors. What's left now are very complex books, generally, from problem clients.

(And I've lost track of the number of calls I get, from Indian purveyors, all trying to convince me that schoolbooks are the Next Big Thing, and how I should get out there and sell that idea. None of them seem to realize that Textbooks are subject to an appropriations process in this country, so that textbooks are ordered some two-five YEARS before they are to be delivered. Schoolboards are quasi-governmental entities, so the whole thing is a government bid process; not some client strolling in the door, with a bag full of money and a purchase order. Not to mention: textbook orders were always highly sought after in the print biz, because of course, the orders were LARGE. But now, we'd be discussing ONE file per book--not 50,000 books per topic/order. It wouldn't be much different than any OTHER complex eBook we do.)

But, come on in, the water is....very empty.

Hitch

[V_Shaft]

@Hitch

Well, I'm far from India. I'm in Europe, actually. Croatia. As for business, fail or success... well, we'll see...

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by V_Shaft

@Hitch

Well, I'm far from India. I'm in Europe, actually. Croatia. As for business, fail or success... well, we'll see...

V:

I didn't mean you were in India. I simply meant that the sheer volume of emails I've received, both from there and lots of other places, seems to indicate that the companies that used to be flush with work no longer are. (When I get emails from two of the biggest providers in India, in the space of 6 weeks--that makes alarm bells go off in my head, as we are hardly huge.)

I hear it from other bookmakers here, too. That doesn't mean that there isn't a perfectly good niche for your shop.

Best of luck to you, Teo.

Hitch

[Notjohn]

Hitch, there is the homeschool market, which in my observation (biased, no doubt, because my daughter is homeschooling HER daughters) is growing. Many are God botherers, of course, but far from all. Plus the botherers are a market unto themselves.

(I hasten to add I mean no offense, provided they don't come down my driveway....)

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Hitch, there is the homeschool market, which in my observation (biased, no doubt, because my daughter is homeschooling HER daughters) is growing. Many are God botherers, of course, but far from all. Plus the botherers are a market unto themselves.

(I hasten to add I mean no offense, provided they don't come down my driveway....)

True, but IIRC, nj, most homeschoolers use pre-approved course materials (much like regularly-schooled children), so as to ensure the applicability of testing for college entrance.

Hitch

[Notjohn]

Ah, well, my daughter has always been an iconoclast. Right now she's teaching The Iliad to her 8th & 9th graders, using course materials from a Harvard EdX MOOC.

[ASterling]

I am not a "formatter" I am a publisher. I swore off Kindle for all but simple text based books a long time ago.

I am curious as to the "problem client" comment.

There are a lot of ways to create a great book (or text). The way the Kindle is right now with any of the options means that many desirable forms of content and presentation for texts is difficult or impossible.

A business that has developed a textbook, for example, that works as an epub3 on a tablet is not a problem are they? There is a reason that educational publishers have in house design departments that work hands in hand with editors and writers, and it's a team. I'm interested in quality. This is my first exposure to people "formatting" or preparing books that are not being published by them. I knew the general idea that an ebook is "text" dumped on a screen was an underlying problem with Kindle. All my students' texts are "defective" on Kindle ... Hard to use or problems with images/tables.

Few students use the Kindle - they use iPads or Surface tablets.

Since y'all are so experienced with Kindle is there a way to improve this? Does Amazon understand what is going on? Like these types of books are so difficult to make work due to their decisions?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ASterling

I am not a "formatter" I am a publisher. I swore off Kindle for all but simple text based books a long time ago.

May I ask why? What type of formatting, specifically, made you leave such a massive marketplace? We have about 2200 clients, with over 3K books, and I don't know one that would voluntarily leave the Amazon marketplace; most sell 88-92% of all their sales there. Of course, if you have a niche market, something like students that buy the books, no matter where they're sold, that's a different situation.

I am curious as to the "problem client" comment.

Well, in hindsight, I suppose I ought to have been more precise in my language. That will teach me. When I say, "problem client," I mean exactly what I said, though--a client that would be a problem in any business. Not someone who simply wants a good/great book product.

When I say "problem clients," I mean

• clients that won't read instructions that they are provided.
• Or who won't read an FAQ article if it's linked to them, and keep emailing the same question (which, by the way, is already answered in the pre-production emails that we send to them) until I copy-paste the body of the FAQ article into an email, and send them that--the same thing I've already linked them to, the same thing I've already told them, in advance, in our two-page pre-production handout.
• Refuse to use proof forms for book edits, and insist on either sending them in an email, in some disorganized, we-can't-find-them, way. (And thus, can't COUNT them for billing, either....)
• Don't watch the videos that explain about the fungibility of Ebooks in a reader, and then insist that the book has "blank pages," because they don't understand how ADE works.
• My all time favorite was a client that emailed me 80+ times, ranting about how our ebook was "corrupted" because Apple told him so. What Apple never bothered to investigate was that he didn't know how to download a file from his own email account (gmail), so he kept "downloading" a shortcut to the file--that was an email attachment--to his desktop. Of course that wouldn't open in Kindle Previewer; it was a shortcut, not a file. I told him repeatedly that he wasn't downloading the file, but no--he insisted that we'd given him a corrupted file. I ended up having to spend two HOURS of my time booting up the "emergency" Mac that I keep here; synching the files; sending his file to myself in a spare gmail account, adn then making screenshots/videos of HOW to download the file, from his email account, to his own computer, to open it in Kindle Previewer.
• Actually, that's a lie--my ALL time favorite was a guy with 5 books, that emailed me (precisely) 811 times, and then didn't understand when I fired him as a client, finally. One of only 6, since 2008, but...I just couldn't take it any longer.
• Or...they disappear for 2, 3 or more months at a time, and then come back with 100 book edits and tell you that they have a pre-launch deadline in 3 days. This is not uncommon.
• These are just examples off the top of my head. This isn't unique to us our our company; any commercial bookmaker will give you the same list. It's endemic.

There are a lot of ways to create a great book (or text). The way the Kindle is right now with any of the options means that many desirable forms of content and presentation for texts is difficult or impossible.

Again, I'll have to ask what you're talking about, specifically. I know that trying to keep up with what works, versus what doesn't, on all the eBook-reading devices is a full-time job.

A business that has developed a textbook, for example, that works as an epub3 on a tablet is not a problem are they? There is a reason that educational publishers have in house design departments that work hands in hand with editors and writers, and it's a team. I'm interested in quality. This is my first exposure to people "formatting" or preparing books that are not being published by them. I knew the general idea that an ebook is "text" dumped on a screen was an underlying problem with Kindle. All my students' texts are "defective" on Kindle ... Hard to use or problems with images/tables.

Well, some of us have been around (formatters) since 2008-9. In the beginning (ha!), Amazon didn't really have a spot for DIY'ers to go. The people who published there didn't know how to make their own MOBI files, so companies like mine came to exist. What MOBI can do now, versus what MOBI could do then--it's just night and day.

Generally speaking--with a few exceptions--what works in ePUB3 ought to, by and large, work in Kindle MOBI format (KF8). If, when you say ePUB3, you mean books that are created with something like iBooksAuthor, then, no--a Kindle won't do that (multi-column presentation with a sidebar running on each page, interactive test content, etc.) But if you mean things like text boxes, sidebars, bracketed boxes, fonts, tables--all of that works in Kindle, if done properly.

Not all formatters do that type (level) of work, however. We do work for a number of publishers, as well as retail work, and we do white-label work for publishers and print layout houses, as well (no visible book credit). Most of the outsource companies, for textbook publishers, etc., don't use book-credit lines, so you wouldn't have an instant way to know that they're using formatters, if that makes any sense.

Few students use the Kindle - they use iPads or Surface tablets.

Well, the iPad has its own issues, if they are endeavoring to use Kindle on that platform. The K4iOS reader is essentially Amazon's most primitive, but it's improving. Of course, if they have an iPad, they can use iBooks to read an ePUB, which I'm inferring you're making.

Since y'all are so experienced with Kindle is there a way to improve this? Does Amazon understand what is going on? Like these types of books are so difficult to make work due to their decisions?

Without knowing what you're referring to, as to what works, what doesn't, or what you feel is "defective," I can't really be helpful. I'm not sure why you'd be having issues with images or tables; most of those problems have been resolved for some years now. Tables can be--not necessarily are, but CAN be--problematic in all eReaders. It's a space issue more than anything else. Do you have some examples? Of things that you feel don't work well for MOBI format? Anything like any of these?: http://www.booknook.biz/showcase/complex-layouts , or is it all images and tables?

Hitch

[Notjohn]

Further to market share, the wisdom seems to be that Amazon has 60 percent of all e-book sales (I suspect that's in the United States, not worldwide) but that self-pubbers do better than that on Amazon because it's search engine is better and its customers are accustomed to searching for books rather than simply following the advertisements in the NYT, NYRB, or TNY, where self-pubbers can't afford to play. Over the past five years (before 2010 there was no effective competition outside Sony, and self-pubbers weren't accommodated on the Sony platform) I have consistently sold 80 percent of my books on Amazon, 20 percent on B&N, Apple, and elsewhere. Every once in a while there will be a change in this ratio, but over the long run it has always returned to 80/20.

I began using the DTP (as it was then known) toward the end of November 2007, which I think was the first month it was available. I uploaded Word docs, then (certainly as early as 2009) zipped html, and finally (at your suggestion, bless you) epub, I think at the start of 2012.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by ASterling

I am not a "formatter" I am a publisher. I swore off Kindle for all but simple text based books a long time ago.


Few students use the Kindle - they use iPads or Surface tablets.

Since y'all are so experienced with Kindle is there a way to improve this?

Do these students have the Kindle apps installed ?

And to carry on the conversation, here's a Gutenberg book (all text) that I consider well-formatted

The Grateful Dead by Gordon Hall Gerould

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/39408

clickable TOC and clickable endnotes and clickable index.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Notjohn

Further to market share, the wisdom seems to be that Amazon has 60 percent of all e-book sales (I suspect that's in the United States, not worldwide) but that self-pubbers do better than that on Amazon because it's search engine is better and its customers are accustomed to searching for books rather than simply following the advertisements in the NYT, NYRB, or TNY, where self-pubbers can't afford to play. Over the past five years (before 2010 there was no effective competition outside Sony, and self-pubbers weren't accommodated on the Sony platform) I have consistently sold 80 percent of my books on Amazon, 20 percent on B&N, Apple, and elsewhere. Every once in a while there will be a change in this ratio, but over the long run it has always returned to 80/20.

You know, that guy at the KDP forums keeps blathering on about that 60-something-percent figure as if it's apodictic. It's not. It's just blather. Nobody KNOWS what the real numbers are, and they never will. I have clients that sell internationally, in big numbers; and national bestsellers, as well, and not one of them thinks it's 60-something. They all think it's 88-92%, and yes, they all sell on Sony, Apple's iBooks, etc.

I began using the DTP (as it was then known) toward the end of November 2007, which I think was the first month it was available. I uploaded Word docs, then (certainly as early as 2009) zipped html, and finally (at your suggestion, bless you) epub, I think at the start of 2012.

Yup, I remember.

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Do these students have the Kindle apps installed ?

And to carry on the conversation, here's a Gutenberg book (all text) that I consider well-formatted

The Grateful Dead by Gordon Hall Gerould

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/39408

clickable TOC and clickable endnotes and clickable index.

Well...it's a perfectly serviceable book, if not very visual, in terms of formatting. It has the basic fundamentals; it has a TOC/Index; it has two-way footnote links; I will say that the font seems to be very, very dark on the Voyage. It also has some oddball light red underscores, the meaning or purpose of which aren't apparent to me. I admit that from a graphic design standpoint, I'm not wild about the heavy blue chapter heads/story heads, but that's all individual taste.

I'd also note that the layout is deliberately set to align-left, which is actually in opposition to what Amazon's always indicated--and of course, once alignment is set for the body-text, the user can't override it. That would drive me bonkers.

Spoiler has some quasi-negative comments about the ePUB formatting. Now, as I consider PG to be an ENORMOUS public service, and a great bunch of people, most of these can be blithely ignored, but as this is a discussion about "good" versus "not-good" formatting...

Spoiler:

I also don't really understand the overly-complex internal structure of the ePUB. If one of my bookmakers gave me that ePUB, he wouldn't keep working for me--that, or he'd have to do some remedial training. In fairness, it's Gutenberg, and the books are bulk-produced, in essence (I donate time to DP, so...yes, I know it's not like the Smashwords Grinder, aka Calibre's API, but...not totally dissimilar, either). The CSS also badly needs cleanup. I probably wouldn't have done the Index the way it's done; if you're going to provide a linked Index, rather than a search-Index, you probably ought to have "return" links embedded, but again--that's personal choice. Most e-readers now have a back button; or someone can click to go back to the Index, but one-way links from Indices always present this set of decisions.

However, from a user's standpoint, sure...mostly, it's a perfectly serviceable ePUB.

Thanks!

Hitch

[Notjohn]

I once wrote a novel that was filmed. A rather famous (but ageing) film star played a secondary part, so the screenplay was revised to enlarge his role. And sometimes the actors just vamped.

So another character ad libbed a line that caused our rather famous actor to choke on his coffee. "You son of a --," he said. "You sneaked that one in on me!" It stayed in the movie because it seemed real, which of course it was.

That was my reaction when I saw "apodictic." I had to look it up!

[ASterling]

I looked up apodictic too!

I have to go to school but here is an example of a book that does NOT work on Kindle and I would think there are probably lots of requested refunds, or not-converted "free trials" for it.

http://www.amazon.com/Current-Issues...dp/B00HQO09MC/

This is the current edition of the English 1B textbook that I use. I just downloaded the $30 "free trial" e-text. It's a PDF. I am able to expand it on my Kindle screen, as I have been unable with a number of other documents. It immediately pixelates so I'm sure all you experienced formatters know what that means - it's at 72 DPI.

I honestly am going to school but download the "free" trial version of the $30 e-text from one of the biggest publishers. I couldn't teach out of this or with students using this.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by ASterling

I looked up apodictic too!

I have to go to school but here is an example of a book that does NOT work on Kindle and I would think there are probably lots of requested refunds, or not-converted "free trials" for it.

http://www.amazon.com/Current-Issues...dp/B00HQO09MC/

This is the current edition of the English 1B textbook that I use. I just downloaded the $30 "free trial" e-text. It's a PDF. I am able to expand it on my Kindle screen, as I have been unable with a number of other documents. It immediately pixelates so I'm sure all you experienced formatters know what that means - it's at 72 DPI.

I honestly am going to school but download the "free" trial version of the $30 e-text from one of the biggest publishers. I couldn't teach out of this or with students using this.

Yeah but it's a "Print Replica" so no attempt was made to format as a ebook.

Most publishers mark these as not available for eink Kindles (at least in the UK store, for some this wasn't done in the US store.)

http://www.amazon.com/100-Photoshop-.../dp/B00X7VBKYE

"available on these devices" (Tablets and PC/Mac)