Reviews

[carandol]

I've been thinking about ebooks and the way they're changing the publishing industry, and how in some cases the traditional publisher is ceasing to be a middle-man between the writer and the reader. Some authors are choosing to publish direct to the internet, and there are thousands of public domain books, many of them little-known, which are resurfacing after years of obscurity.

Now your can say many rude things about publishers, but they do at least perform the function of sorting the wheat from the chaff -- discarding the complete rubbish, and hopefully improving and tightening up the good stuff before it reaches us readers. Without a publisher between writer and reader, chances are we're going to have to read a lot more rubbish in years to come.

This leads me to think that there should be somewhere on the internet where well-written, considered, reliable reviews of ebooks can be found. And what better place than MobileRead? I was wondering what others thought of the idea of starting a section *just* for reviews, with discussion of those reviews perhaps in a different thread. That way, people looking for a review of an ebook they've found will know where to look, and people on the lookout for something to read can browse the reviews and then follow a link to download the book in question.

What does anyone else think of this?

[HarryT]

What is a "reliable" review? If you don't like a book, does it mean that I won't like it (or vice versa)? I can't stand reading books with poor grammar; perhaps it doesn't bother you. I'm just not sure that I really see the value of reviews, unless it is simply to make factual statements about this like the book having poor grammar, or things like that.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What is a "reliable" review? If you don't like a book, does it mean that I won't like it (or vice versa)? I can't stand reading books with poor grammar; perhaps it doesn't bother you. I'm just not sure that I really see the value of reviews, unless it is simply to make factual statements about this like the book having poor grammar, or things like that.

How do you determine what new books might be worth your attention?

I read a fair number of reviews, and reliability is a function of the reviewer.

The best reviews for me are those in which the reviewers tastes and biases are clearly stated. Even a negative review can be a positive indicator when that's clear, in the cases of "X hated it, which means I'll love it!"

If I were to undertake reviews, mine would all be positive. There are scads of bad books published. I'd rather spend my time recommending stuff I found worth reading than warning people off the failures.
______
Dennis

[carandol]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I read a fair number of reviews, and reliability is a function of the reviewer.

The best reviews for me are those in which the reviewers tastes and biases are clearly stated. Even a negative review can be a positive indicator when that's clear, in the cases of "X hated it, which means I'll love it!"

Exactly what I would have said. An unreliable review would be:

"This book is cool! I stayed up really late to finish it. Everyone will like it."

A reliable review would be:

"This is a tale of swashbuckling adventure and political machinations in seventeenth century France. Told in rich descriptive prose, with many a dash of humour, it should appeal to fans of The Three Musketeers. Definitely in my top ten of the year."

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

How do you determine what new books might be worth your attention?

Interesting question.

These days, I tend to be fairly selective in my reading, and stick with authors I know I like - simply because I have far more books to read than I have time to read them in.

The main exception to that is the Baen "Webscriptions" stuff, where I buy everything they publish. I've discovered a lot of authors I wouldn't have otherwise come across that way.

I don't personally use reviews to select books, because, as I said above, I have no way of knowing whether the reviewer's tastes have anything in common with mine.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Interesting question.

These days, I tend to be fairly selective in my reading, and stick with authors I know I like - simply because I have far more books to read than I have time to read them in.

Same here, on time vs books, but I don't stick only to folks whose stuff I know I like. Of course, my fiction reading is skewed to SF/fantasy, so the question there tends to be "Which of my friends has a new book out?" (I've been involved in organized SF fan activities for many years, and know a lot of the folks in the field.)

The main exception to that is the Baen "Webscriptions" stuff, where I buy everything they publish. I've discovered a lot of authors I wouldn't have otherwise come across that way.

I've discovered some authors I like via the Baen Free Library, but I'm not a candidate for everything Webscriptions offers. I like Baen's SF, but I'm less enthused by their fantasy offerings.

I sometimes buy books by authors unfamiliar to me simply because Tor published them, and I've learned to trust their taste. Baen is probably the best at mid-level action/adventure, but while I like that, I have broader overall tastes.

I don't personally use reviews to select books, because, as I said above, I have no way of knowing whether the reviewer's tastes have anything in common with mine.

In my case, that's earned through familiarity. I've simply read enough of some reviewers to get a feel for their taste. (And I don't understand how some reviewers do it, like Don D'Ammassa, the long time reviewer for Locus. I don't think he quite gets and reviews everything, but he comes close.)
______
Dennis

[Liviu_5]

Reviews are very useful. I found many, many books like that. Sure I have 20 or so authors I buy on publication and some 10-20 others I consider, but how do you find new authors. I would be very interested in a review section but for books in general, not particularly e-books. I post lots of reviews on another forum sffworld (mostly sff, but mainstream, historical too) since I am not yet decided to start a review blog and I would be happy to crosspost here.

This year for example I have read (both e and print) about 26 new novels for me (mostly new releases 07/08), started several others that I intend to finish, and also I've read lots of short stories - the distribution of the novels is 10 hist/mainstream, 9 fantasy, 7 sf.

Several recent books that I've read due to reviews are The Monsters of Templeton by L. Groff, The Meaning of Night by M. Cox, Fingersmith by S. Waters, Discipline by P. Ahlgren, Red Wolf Conspiracy by R. Redick, The Somnambulist by J. Barnes (the sequel Domino Men is in the mail from the UK just released), Glass Books of the Dream Eaters by G. Dahlquist of which I have posted reviews...

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

In my case, that's earned through familiarity. I've simply read enough of some reviewers to get a feel for their taste. (And I don't understand how some reviewers do it, like Don D'Ammassa, the long time reviewer for Locus. I don't think he quite gets and reviews everything, but he comes close.)

So he reviews for Locus now? I stopped reading Locus a long time ago when Science Fiction Chronicle existed and I have always associated him with Science Fiction Chronicle since he reviewed there many years.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

Reviews are very useful. I found many, many books like that. Sure I have 20 or so authors I buy on publication and some 10-20 others I consider, but how do you find new authors.

For science fiction I tries to read the short lists for the Clarke award, the BSFA award and for the Hugo award and that is my way of finding new authors. It is also good to have read these books since some panels at science fiction conventions becomes much more interesting if you have read what other people have read that year.

[Puffball]

carandol, am I right in thinking this has been prompted by that essay on the Richard Herley site? He makes some good points about the publishing business. My sister used to date a writer (no names), quite a successful one, and the treatment he got from his publishers was terrible. It seems the more you enjoy your job, the worse you get paid and the worse you're treated by employers. AFAIK, Herley is the only writer actually putting his stuff out as shareware, but when others (like my sister's ex) realise there's a possibility of going it alone there could be a mass exodus to the web.

Herley has got a solid record, his reviews speak for themselves, but what about writers who haven't got that? HarryT, that's where the need for a review site comes in. People are happy to write reviews for Amazon - why not harness that urge? If we could also do the "5 out of 8 people found this helpful" thing, that would add a lot of value.

If authors publish their books straight to the web for the ebook-reading fraternity, I say bring it on! I'm tired of overpaying for ebooks that I don't even finish. In fact mainly I use my Reader for PD books, from Gutenberg especially. I'm keen on the idea of paying only for books I like, especially at shareware prices, but I'm not keen on downloading a whole load of turkeys just to find something good.

[carandol]

Originally Posted by Puffball

carandol, am I right in thinking this has been prompted by that essay on the Richard Herley site?

Well, not directly, it's been something I've been thinking about for a while. The trend for self-publishing in ebook format is much more common in the role-playing game industry than it is at present in fiction publishing, but I can see it could go that way with fiction too. And as a reader, I don't really want to be wading through the virtual slush-pile looking for a good novel. I know enough people who have to do that for a living and there really is some excruciating stuff out there. We could easily be swamped with appalling Lord of the Rings rip-offs written by overenthusiastic and undertalented 16-year-olds. I mean, are you familiar with The Eye of Argon?

Plus, like I said, there are all these "classics" returning from obscurity. And I look at the tens of thousands of books on Gutenberg and wonder how many of these are actually unjustly neglected classics, and how many went out of print because they weren't actually very good, and are only of interest to an occasional academic.

Reviews of the good stuff and occasional dire warnings of things to stay away from would be worth having.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by carandol

Well, not directly, it's been something I've been thinking about for a while. The trend for self-publishing in ebook format is much more common in the role-playing game industry than it is at present in fiction publishing, but I can see it could go that way with fiction too. And as a reader, I don't really want to be wading through the virtual slush-pile looking for a good novel. I know enough people who have to do that for a living and there really is some excruciating stuff out there. We could easily be swamped with appalling Lord of the Rings rip-offs written by overenthusiastic and undertalented 16-year-olds. I mean, are you familiar with The Eye of Argon?

Ghu, yes. One of the occasional party games in my circles is to see how much of it you can read with a straight face.

The problem with self-publishing is an aspect of something I've commented about here in other threads. Back in the late 60's, SF writer Norman Spinrad thought there ought to be enough SF magazines in existance that everyone could get published. My thought at the time was "That's nice. Who will read it?" Now, with the Internet, everyone can get published. I still have the same question.

While people have various complaints against major publishers, they do perform a critical function: they're a filter. Getting published by a regular publisher is no guarantee of goodness, but it's at least less likely to be mind-numbingly bad. Publishers make their living selling books, and at least try to pick books that can sell.

Plus, like I said, there are all these "classics" returning from obscurity. And I look at the tens of thousands of books on Gutenberg and wonder how many of these are actually unjustly neglected classics, and how many went out of print because they weren't actually very good, and are only of interest to an occasional academic.

That's both the strength and the weakness of PG. It's volunteer labor, so what you see is what people wanted to work on. I do wonder at the enthusiasm for things like "Northern Nut Growers Association Report of the Proceedings at the Annual Meeting" (of which there are now three volumes at PG), but obviously, someone cares enough to do them.

Reviews of the good stuff and occasional dire warnings of things to stay away from would be worth having.

I'll propose a friendly amendment to the original suggestion.

This is MobileRead, concerned with electronic literature and the technologies that make it possible. We are now at four thousand volumes and counting of works from the public domain or from Creative Commons licensed materials that have been uploaded here as carefully crafted editions in the most popular electronic formats, with steadily increasing craftsmanship as our contributors grow more skilled with the tools they use to create the uploads.

I'd like to see some reviews of those. Folks here cared enough to to create those editions. Why? What did they see as meriting their time and effort, and why might we wish to download and read them?
______
Dennis

[Cthulhu]

In some cases, a review says as much about the critic as it does of the work. There are some periodicals to which I used to go in order to find out about new films, books, &tc. Some of them I simply glanced at because actually reading the reviews made me sick.
If a reviewer makes someone reading an alternative weekly break out wikipedia or a hipster dictionary, they're not worth my time. Alternatively, some critics need to consult thesauri more often.

I would welcome our new reviewer overlords.

My interests are mostly non-fiction, like history, some sociology, and technical things, but sadly a bulk of digitally available is self-help and polemical tripe. So having a dedicated thread, or strand, of reviews of available texts would be nice.

[moz]

One of the things I hope to do over the next while is scan and OCR my collection of magazines especially, but also many of my favourite non-fiction books. It just seems wrong to me that I can't buy computer-related books in electronic format, but I'm also looking forward to being able to search and re-read many of the gender studies, sociology and philosophy books that I just can't bring myself to lug about for the time it takes to read them. But for now I fear that the cost of the reader is the smallest part of the cost of owning the ebook ... I just ordered an A3 scanner for the magazine collection

[moz]

Originally Posted by carandol

there should be somewhere on the internet where well-written, considered, reliable reviews of ebooks can be found.

I think the best place for this is with the books. If not the reviews will need to have a link to where the book can be found, with possible paywall/registration or relocation hassles. Ideally every site should be hosting something akin to the Amazon "purchaser reviews". I realise that not all hosts see this as their job (PG especially) but for most sites I think that's the way to go.

So I like Dennis' idea of having reviews for content that's hosted here. That makes perfect sense to me, and would add a lot to the value of the site. Especially anything that sounds like a recommendation system - "people who liked this also liked..." or even just "this reviewer also liked/disliked these books".