You don't matter - and you never did

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by leebase

The rest of you can simply do whatever it is you always did. Heck, go ahead and steal books via whatever excuses you tell yourself is ok. It doesn't matter, because you don't matter. You never did.

That's what I've been saying all along, that publishers don't lose anything from people who download their ebooks for free. There will be a price point where a large number of them will pay rather than spend the time it would take to get them for free, convert them, etc. That price will be enough to support a writer/editor team, but it won't be enough to support all the other people who are currently leeching from them, at least not at the level they are used to now.

[bobavey]

Can't you just feel the love surrounding this thread?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by bobavey

Can't you just feel the love surrounding this thread?

Well, what did you expect?

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by leebase

They did before, and they will continue -- because they value the art enough to actually pay the price that the industry is willing to work for.

They value the art enough to pay the industry the price it wants? And if they don't pay, they don't support the art?

I am not sure that most of the participants will agree that the industry is the same thing as the art. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a large number of us who would like to see "author, inc." paying editors and typesetters out of his pocket (bank loans for starting business?) and then distributing his ebooks directly from his web page.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by leebase

... You simply don't matter to the publishers and you never did ...

Publishers generally rely on consumers to buy their products. They couldn't exist for long without them. Consumers can vote with their feet, in a free market. Surely the question is whether they will do so in sufficient numbers, to sway the publishers.

[DiapDealer]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a large number of us who would like to see "author, inc." paying editors and typesetters out of his pocket (bank loans for starting business?) and then distributing his ebooks directly from his web page.

You certainly wouldn't see me cryin' if that came to pass.

The point is, things are changing. As much as publishers would love to see things stay exactly the same as they always have been, that ship has sailed. Ebooks and the internet have changed the equation. The question publishers need to ask themselves is; do we want to be on the ship (even if our berth is now on the orlop deck)?... or do we want to be standing on the dock crying?

It's only going to take a couple of huge mainstream names moving toward self-publishing to make the whole archaic system come crumbling down anyway.

[wvcherrybomb]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The point is, things are changing. As much as publishers would love to see things stay exactly the same as they always have been, that ship has sailed. Ebooks and the internet have changed the equation. The question publishers need to ask themselves is; do we want to be on the ship (even if our berth is now on the orlop deck)?... or do we want to be standing on the dock crying?

It's only going to take a couple of huge mainstream names moving toward self-publishing to make the whole archaic system come crumbling down anyway.

I had planned to say something along these lines once I reached the end of the thread. Things change.

However, I somehow get the feeling that the OP is less about ebook pricing and more about someone not willing to get suckered out of $50 for a print.

[AHMavrick]

I've been around for a while. Long enough to recall B&W TV was it. unless you wanted to spring 25 cents for a Saturday matinee at the moving picture show. There was no color and there were only 3 stations, if you were lucky. TVs cost quite a bit too, but when the companies found competition and a lower price point they sold LOTS more TVs to LOTS more folks and made LOTS more money.

Music came on big disks made of black plastic called records or for free on the radio.

Then color TVs came. Big advance. Things looked kinda like they did in real life. Color broadcasting was scarce and so were the TVs since they did cost so much. Once the price of color TVs came down to a point where the public (customer) was willing to pay they sold like hot cakes.

Then came along video cassette players and recorders. You could actually rent a movie and take it home to watch with your own pop corn and drinks.
Soon you could go to multiple stores and get a movie not for $5 each a day but for $3 for 2 days.

The theaters cried alligator tears but they still show movies and even have discount theaters that show them for less than $10 a ticket. They seem to make money even at $3 a ticket. You don't mind your shoes sticking to the floor so much at $3 either.

Music? Oh now it's in cassettes. Lord a mercy! now you can even copy your original cassettes or records onto your own cassettes. The music industry didn't seem to fade away though and "stars" still make obscene amounts of money for their craft as well as the music industry.

Videos changed to CDs. So did music. Then there were CD recorders so you could copy your music or video again. The industries seemed to survive and adapt.

Now we have 2 different formats for DVDs. Anyone remember beta? Music can be downloaded. No record, tape, CD or DVD needed. Heck you can download movies now. The industry seems to adapt and move on.

Even photographs have changed. Glass plates no longer exist. Neither does Kodachrome but there are tons of folks taking wonderful pictures, including professional photographers who don't take on "airs" about "art", without even so much as film, developer, fixer or a dark room. Not nearly as smelly and you don't have to go modify a room to keep out light either.

Things change. Successful companies change with it, or like the Edsel, fade away. Either you please the market or you can fade away along with the claims about "art" that don't matter because you didn't remember that the only thing that does matter is pleasing the customer. If you do not provide what the customer wants, at the price the customer is willing to pay you certainly do not matter.

If a small niche is all you want, make your product exclusive, but don't forget that exclusive things change or they go away just like beta video equipment did.

Books are not a necessity in a stalled or bad economy. Publishers need to understand that entertainment is the first thing cut when budgets get tight. If they don't make things economical and price accordingly they can't make a living if no one is buying. You can't charge rent that is equivalent to buying it outright and expect customers to be happy about it. Unhappy customers find ways around that situation, think napster.

[abookreader]

There are some things that I'm pretty sure of.

1. There is no reported shortage of authors. Just the opposite in fact, the publishing sites are madcap full of people who'd like a chance to sell me a book. So if I don't matter to the likes of whatever the big name author of the day is, that's fine because chances are pretty good that I'll find another one.

2. I as a singular person probably don't matter to MacMillan or the other big names. I as a marketing trend however, matter greatly. It is hard to find one single article or anything put out over the past two year in regards to the Publishing Industry that does not talk about the extreme growth of digital publishing and what it is doing to them.

3. I love to buy books in the $5 to $10 range. There is a burgeoning number of Publishing houses and retailers in the eBook business who love to sell me books in the $5 to $10 range, and they claim to be making a nice profit from it too.

4. So enjoy your expensive books and give yourself a pat on the back for your support of the art. I'll just be over here with my Kindle reading my books.

[EowynCarter]

Well, i have no fixed price really.
For authors I know, when I know i'm going to enjoy the book, well. But, i'll buy one expensive books, where I would have bought two cheaper.
I pay not to "support the art", but because I want to read THAT book, and not an other.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by leebase

To my fellow forum participants all upset at the cost of ebooks. You seem to be under the impression that you matter. Well, you don't. You never did. You never paid $25 to $30 for a new hard back book. You used the library, borrowed from a friend, bought at garage sales -- or perhaps you bought the paper back when the really cheap mass produced version came out.

So -- continue on. Use the library. Buy from the remainder bin at Costco. Wait until your best friend reads the book she bought and then borrow it. Troll through the neighborhood yard sales and buy books for pennies.

Lee, great rant, too bad it is riddled with errors.

Error 1: I haven't borrowed a book from my local library in 43 years.

Error 2: I have not only spent between $3000 and $5000 every year on new hardcover books for the past 15-20 years, I continue to buy new releases in hardcover. In fact, in the last 3 months alone, I have spent $1275 (round number) on newly released hardcovers.

Error 3: I rarely buy a book from the remainder section. In the past year, I have spent no more than $100 on remaindered books.

Error 4: I do not buy paperbacks.

I do, however, supplement my purchases with purchases from estate sales and used bookstores where I look for old first, edition, first printing collectibles.

And I do complain about ebook pricing because of the lack of a uniform DRM scheme and the outrageous price demanded for poorly formatted books.

Seems like you missed the boat somewhere.

[jinlo]

Originally Posted by SkyDream

Actually, no one matters. Even you.
Ask the universe. It just didn't know you.

Actually, we all matter, every last one of us.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by leebase

To my fellow forum participants all upset at the cost of ebooks. You seem to be under the impression that you matter. Well, you don't. You never did. You never paid $25 to $30 for a new hard back book. You used the library, borrowed from a friend, bought at garage sales -- or perhaps you bought the paper back when the really cheap mass produced version came out.

So -- continue on. Use the library. Buy from the remainder bin at Costco. Wait until your best friend reads the book she bought and then borrow it. Troll through the neighborhood yard sales and buy books for pennies.

You simply don't matter to the publishers and you never did. You have never supported the art and you never will. That's ok. There should be used books for the rest of your reading lifetime.

What you can't have -- and never could have -- are the first run desirable books at the price you are willing to pay. You didn't value books enough before ebooks to pay that price -- and you don't value them now. As such -- your opinion doesn't matter to publishers who cater to the millions of folks who actually pay the freight. They did before, and they will continue -- because they value the art enough to actually pay the price that the industry is willing to work for.

The rest of you can simply do whatever it is you always did. Heck, go ahead and steal books via whatever excuses you tell yourself is ok. It doesn't matter, because you don't matter. You never did.

Lee

You don't know me, you don't know what I have bought. I've been an avid reader for 15 years and have spent more than my share of money on hard covers and paperbacks. I do not use the library, I don't troll for anything though you sound remarkably like one in this post. I don't go to yard sales. I think ebooks cost too much. Kindly keep your sweeping generalizations off me and get over yourself.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by jinlo

Actually, we all matter, every last one of us.

We have to matter. If any us antimatter, make big boom.

[Fbone]

This thread certainly has lowered my self esteem.