Authors pushing books - Page 4

jinlo · 06-04-2010, 07:58 PM

So, a new board is created for authors to plug their own novels. Maybe it’s a great idea, maybe it’s not. I guess we won’t know until the attempt is made. Me, I’m a pessimist and a cynic. While I believe most authors will be respectful and courteous of other writers as well as potential readers, I think a handful of people will simply have another board to abuse.

Anyway, perhaps I’m completely wrong. Won’t be the first time. Still, what happens after the new board is up and running. Can an author post in the self-promotion thread and then two weeks later have a coupon sale and create another thread in the deal board?
Or, what if the author initially offers the new book at a bargain price? Can they post in both threads?

If not, what’s the reasoning? Are you basically telling an author that he or she can’t announce a special sale of his or her own book in the deals section, that it’s off limits?

If that becomes the rule, why wouldn’t an author simply get a friend to post a note on the Deals board? Then the author can go in and respond.

Please don’t read this as if I’m being sarcastic. I’m being honest as I can. If a new board is made, what will be the rules regarding “deals” and how will they be communicated so that everyone is dealt with in a fair setting?

jaxx6166 · 06-04-2010, 10:47 PM

As a writer and a member of the MR community, you know my stance on the spam we've seen lately. I'm also getting a little bogged down with browsing forum topics. I used to enjoy going to the Writer's Corner and was super excited when it was created. But, lately, it seems like it's become a dumping ground for 2 post pr managers. It's gotten bad enough that I've stopped reading regularly and am now just kind of in the twilight stage where I'll check every now and then.

And I'm having the same issue in the "Deals, Freebies, and Resources" forum and "Reading Recommendations."

It just seems like new members are abusing the boards. And it bothers me. It's like a door to door vacuum salesmen coming at dinner time. Or walking through a bazaar where everywhere you go someone is screaming at you to buy the world's greatest book (and they're all the world's greatest books) I especially like the ones who tell me their dog or their mother loved it and you will too!!!

To use a vulgar euphemism, it's like trying to score on the first date. At least buy me dinner and take me to a movie first...

The thoughts that some have had about the vague forum descriptions are spot on. It's very possible that they're thinking that nothing is wrong. Because they are recommending their book, having a sale, or being all authorly.

The book fair is a great idea. Or maybe a more concise and clear forum description. I'd hate to see posting restrictions implemented, and i hope it doesn't have to get to that point.

FizzyWater · 06-04-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxx6166

And I'm having the same issue in the "Deals, Freebies, and Resources" forum and "Reading Recommendations."

It just seems like new members are abusing the boards. And it bothers me. It's like a door to door vacuum salesmen coming at dinner time. Or walking through a bazaar where everywhere you go someone is screaming at you to buy the world's greatest book (and they're all the world's greatest books) I especially like the ones who tell me their dog or their mother loved it and you will too!!!

To use a vulgar euphemism, it's like trying to score on the first date. At least buy me dinner and take me to a movie first...

HarryT · 06-05-2010, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinlo

While I believe most authors will be respectful and courteous of other writers as well as potential readers, I think a handful of people will simply have another board to abuse.

Then we will warn them and, if they ignore our warnings, we will ban them. We've done it in the past, and we'll do it again if necessary, reluctant though we always are to do so.

SameOldStory · 06-05-2010, 08:00 AM

"Have mercy on me - I have achieved zero sales so far on my book. I am destined for authorial obscurity it seems "

This posting, 16 days later, was from a guy (I call him Easterbunny) that Dr Drib had a problem with.

This guy is the poster child (no pun intended) of all our complaints.

For selfish reasons (it would make it easier to find new books/authors) I would like a seperate forum for writers to promote their new books.

On the other hand jinlo has good point against it.

FlorenceArt · 06-05-2010, 08:13 AM

I don't see it as a good point personally, just as pointing out difficulties. Obviously creating a separate forum won't stop abuse, and some posters will still have to be corrected when they make mistakes, willful or not. Obviously the definition of "abuse" requires interpretation. That's why we need moderators.

It still doesn't change the fact that creating a separate forum will make it easier:
- for people who like self-promotion threads to find them
- for people who don't like them to avoid them
- for mods to deal with self-promotion threads

Again, it doesn't mean that we will suddenly live in a perfect world. It's just a practical measure that shouldn't be very hard to implement and will make life a little bit easier for most users.

jinlo · 06-05-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlorenceArt

It still doesn't change the fact that creating a separate forum will make it easier:
- for people who like self-promotion threads to find them
- for people who don't like them to avoid them
- for mods to deal with self-promotion threads

And that's fine, but if a self-promotion board comes into existence, I still want to know what the suggested rule is for authors that have something they also consider a "Deal." Whether it be a low initial price, a coupon, a freebie offer, two for one deal--are all of these to be forbidden from the "Deals" board because they are still considered self-promotion?

Hatgirl · 06-05-2010, 08:36 AM

I don't mind authors posting "free for a day" or "25% off" deals for their own ebooks in the Deals, Freebies, and Resources forum, as long as the author doesn't go bonkers bumping their thread.

I quite like the book-covers-as-avatars version of promotion. Useful and not obnoxious.

But promotion anywhere else - get out the mallet of correction.

I do think it would be tricky to delineate between the new promo section and the Deals section. If an author offers their book at 50% off it IS a deal, and I'm happy for it to be in that section.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 06-05-2010, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

I had to go back a ways to find a book announcement from the right Steve, but here's an example of what would go into the Book Fair section:

The House of Jacquarelle: Third in the Kestral series

And that search, right there, is an argument in favor of a new section: I had to dig for it. It's behind posts like "User Poetry", "Indie Authors on Twitter", "Beta Readers Wanted", and that great classic "Testing Signature". If it had been in the Book Fair, it would probably have been on the first page.

Okay, I'll concede that point, but with a caveat: My Kestral thread WAS on the first page when I posted it... then other threads and new threads pushed it back.

You'll still be searching through a new forum--and yes, Book Fair doesn't sound bad--especially when advertisers post, then bump or encourage others to bump for them (because advertisers have figured out how to do that, too). But given the comments I've read, I'll agree that it probably would work.

beppe · 06-05-2010, 09:25 AM

A promo sections would be interesting for the targets of the promo, and maybe it would make the promoter more clear in his actions. One innocent bystander goes there and see what new music is playing. He might get in, get a seat and buy a drink. It would not reduce the amount of promotions in other forums, by individual posting or by signatures.
If the power to be go this way good for them, if not, tough.

I imagine, not being one myself, that an author craves for acknowledgment and success. That is views and sales. That is the way. There is style also, but at the end only numbers count, and approval or disapproval by a cultured or by a beastly reader just counts the same. Ah Ah. This is a very old question that goes back to about 400 b.c. see link.

Our writers corner has a different scope. It will be interesting to see if it will remain so. Personally, I am quite sure of that because the mods are really very good. And that's the truth.

I think giving space to authors and promoters to make their work (trade, merchandise, business, who cares how they call it, it is the same stuff whichever way) known is well within the scope of this site. Advertising is an other story. But to none of us, logging in this site was a doctor prescription. And if it gets too much loaded, than one stays if he likes it and goes if he does not. So everything keeps together. I am sure the views are monitored. I would monitor them.

So, this is my opinion. If the administratores want to make a new section, with romantic vampires and similar paraphernalia, nobody looses. And self promotion with every conceivable means will continue. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And if they exagerate, they will have to take s.... But they do not care. Imagine how much they have to swallow on their road to success. But we like to give it. At least that. So everybody is sort of happy.

Worldwalker · 06-05-2010, 12:56 PM

As far as posting in the deals section goes, I suggested a while back that we might want a split into subsections:

device deals
book deals
bookstore deals

Device deals would be for sales on ebook reading devices, like when Woot had refurb 600s for sale. That one's pretty obvious.

Book deals would be for discounts/freebies on individual books, which is where "My book is half price on Smashwords this weekend" would go. Those wouldn't necessarily have to be posted by the authors; any deals that someone spots that are specific to a specific book or books would go there.

Bookstore deals would be for more general sales and discounts from the bookstore end, like "all romances half price for Valentine's Day on BVC". An easy rule of thumb would be that if the post includes the titles of specific books or the names of specific authors it would go in "book deals" while if it only mentions the store, genre, whatever, it would be in "store deals".

The big advantage to this, aside from satisfying my obsession to classify things, is in time on the front page. The "deals" section is so busy that any given post gets pushed off the front page rather quickly (this also tends to encourage bumping). If someone's trying to find a deal on a new ebook reader, it's buried under book discount notices. If someone would jump on a discount on Steve's books, they might never see it because it got flooded out by ... um, how many people posted about those 600s on Woot? ... device and bookstore sales. And if someone is looking for cheap books by authors who don't hang out on MobileRead, they'll have to dig for the bookstore sales among the other two categories.

For instance, I don't care in the slightest about device deals. I have my 505, it does what I want, and I'll be happy with it until it wears out (that's just the way I am; I drive a car that's old enough to vote, too). On the other hand, there are some ebook stores I buy from whose deals would interest me, and I'm even more interested in deals (especially of the free sample variety) by indie authors. Sorting the three types of deals out would make it a lot easier to find the ones I want. And, just by having the extra sections, it would keep new posts of each category on the front page of that section longer, which would be good for everyone.

That way, the Book Fair would be for announcements of new ebooks (whether or not they had a special deal attached), and Deals/Books would be for special deals on ebooks (whether or not they're new). And, yes, the same book could be posted to both of them if it was both new and discounted. It might also make sense, if the MR forum software is capable of it, to set the deals sections to auto-purge posts after a set period of time since nobody really cares about deals that expired a month ago.

Moejoe · 06-05-2010, 01:05 PM

How about a gentle reminder that this isn't the home shopping network on sign up?

This is a community, not a place to maximise market potentials and gain customers.

And then you've got to contribute at least, lets say 20 posts before you can even post anything related to a product. And even then you'll be whipped soundly with a horsehair brush if you go all marketing speak - Incredible savings! Once in a lifetime offer! etc.

omk3 · 06-05-2010, 01:10 PM

It's easy to contribute 20 nonsense posts if you have to.
And if a writer wants to join, and talk about the book he is writing for example, ask questions about the cover or chapter 42, that's fine by me.
Once in a lifetime offers! and anything else with exclamation marks is not fine by me, even by regular members. That's advertising.
Announcing your book is absolutely fine though.
(And by the way, what happened to yours?

)

Moejoe · 06-05-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omk3

It's easy to contribute 20 nonsense posts if you have to.
And if a writer wants to join, and talk about the book he is writing for example, ask questions about the cover or chapter 42, that's fine by me.
Once in a lifetime offers! and anything else with exclamation marks is not fine by me, even by regular members. That's advertising.
Announcing your book is absolutely fine though.
(And by the way, what happened to yours?

)

But, but, my book is astounding!!! More than that, if you buy now, you'll get a free hat! Yes, you heard it, a free hat in any colour of your choice*! That's a massive saving of some amount that's massive!

Oh and I killed my writing for good. I just can't keep focused on writing any more. There's more important things, like hats! Did I mention you get a free hat?

*All hats are white. If you chose a non-white hat a man called Vinnie Tucci will visit you in the night and beat you with a sock full of oranges.

On a more serious note, I really don't know how you'll correct this kind of thing. I know I don't bother much with Writers' Corner since the influx of the 'buy-my-book' types. It turned quickly from a place where writers were hanging out, helping each other, challenging each other and involving the community, to a horrible coupon-ridden, offer-fest. If I'd know the birth of indie publishing would mean I'd have to wade through a forum of 'offers' then I'd have supported the old industry

Somewhere, someone is telling all these offerers that this is a good place to hawk their wares, and that's exactly what they're doing. They're not, for the most part, interested in being a part of the community, just in selling stuff. If it were anything but writing everybody would be up in arms, but it's been given a pass for ages. Oh, well, that's just how it goes. I believe the only way to stop this is for the community as a whole to show that they don't want this to happen. Ignore the threads from people who are just pumping and dumping their wares. Reward community activity of members by showing interest in their fiction.

And while I'm dreaming, I'll also have a pony too

omk3 · 06-05-2010, 01:33 PM

Well, exclamation marks from you are actually welcome, now that I see them in person

And I'd like a white hat please. Do I get to choose a shade of white at least?

Thing is, we ARE interested in books.
And I really don't feel that I have to ignore some indie writers just because they are not part of this community. But I do ignore spammers.
So, announcements are fine for me. Even by not very active members. And if they are in the appropriate subforum. No harm done.

Oh, and I like Worldwalker's proposed changes for the Deals section too.

06-05-2010, 08:00 AM	#50
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	*"Have mercy on me - I have achieved zero sales so far on my book. I am destined for authorial obscurity it seems "* This posting, 16 days later, was from a guy (I call him Easterbunny) that Dr Drib had a problem with. This guy is the poster child (no pun intended) of all our complaints. For selfish reasons (it would make it easier to find new books/authors) I would like a seperate forum for writers to promote their new books. On the other hand jinlo has good point against it. Last edited by SameOldStory; 06-05-2010 at 08:33 AM.

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06-04-2010, 07:58 PM	#46
jinlo aka coco jinlo Posts: 415 Karma: 500002 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ-USA Device: Just purchased Sony 505, but alas, it is for the wife	So, a new board is created for authors to plug their own novels. Maybe it’s a great idea, maybe it’s not. I guess we won’t know until the attempt is made. Me, I’m a pessimist and a cynic. While I believe most authors will be respectful and courteous of other writers as well as potential readers, I think a handful of people will simply have another board to abuse. Anyway, perhaps I’m completely wrong. Won’t be the first time. Still, what happens after the new board is up and running. Can an author post in the self-promotion thread and then two weeks later have a coupon sale and create another thread in the deal board? Or, what if the author initially offers the new book at a bargain price? Can they post in both threads? If not, what’s the reasoning? Are you basically telling an author that he or she can’t announce a special sale of his or her own book in the deals section, that it’s off limits? If that becomes the rule, why wouldn’t an author simply get a friend to post a note on the Deals board? Then the author can go in and respond. Please don’t read this as if I’m being sarcastic. I’m being honest as I can. If a new board is made, what will be the rules regarding “deals” and how will they be communicated so that everyone is dealt with in a fair setting?

06-04-2010, 10:47 PM	#47
jaxx6166 Wizard Posts: 1,222 Karma: 769316 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eternal summer Device: 350, iPad, PW	As a writer and a member of the MR community, you know my stance on the spam we've seen lately. I'm also getting a little bogged down with browsing forum topics. I used to enjoy going to the Writer's Corner and was super excited when it was created. But, lately, it seems like it's become a dumping ground for 2 post pr managers. It's gotten bad enough that I've stopped reading regularly and am now just kind of in the twilight stage where I'll check every now and then. And I'm having the same issue in the "Deals, Freebies, and Resources" forum and "Reading Recommendations." It just seems like new members are abusing the boards. And it bothers me. It's like a door to door vacuum salesmen coming at dinner time. Or walking through a bazaar where everywhere you go someone is screaming at you to buy the world's greatest book (and they're all the world's greatest books) I especially like the ones who tell me their dog or their mother loved it and you will too!!! To use a vulgar euphemism, it's like trying to score on the first date. At least buy me dinner and take me to a movie first... The thoughts that some have had about the vague forum descriptions are spot on. It's very possible that they're thinking that nothing is wrong. Because they are recommending their book, having a sale, or being all authorly. The book fair is a great idea. Or maybe a more concise and clear forum description. I'd hate to see posting restrictions implemented, and i hope it doesn't have to get to that point.

06-05-2010, 08:13 AM	#51
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	I don't see it as a good point personally, just as pointing out difficulties. Obviously creating a separate forum won't stop abuse, and some posters will still have to be corrected when they make mistakes, willful or not. Obviously the definition of "abuse" requires interpretation. That's why we need moderators. It still doesn't change the fact that creating a separate forum will make it easier: - for people who like self-promotion threads to find them - for people who don't like them to avoid them - for mods to deal with self-promotion threads Again, it doesn't mean that we will suddenly live in a perfect world. It's just a practical measure that shouldn't be very hard to implement and will make life a little bit easier for most users.

06-05-2010, 08:36 AM	#53
Hatgirl Addict Posts: 296 Karma: 955301 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Sony PRS-300, Sony PRS-T2, Kindle (7th Gen)	I don't mind authors posting "free for a day" or "25% off" deals for their own ebooks in the Deals, Freebies, and Resources forum, as long as the author doesn't go bonkers bumping their thread. I quite like the book-covers-as-avatars version of promotion. Useful and not obnoxious. But promotion anywhere else - get out the mallet of correction. I do think it would be tricky to delineate between the new promo section and the Deals section. If an author offers their book at 50% off it IS a deal, and I'm happy for it to be in that section.

06-05-2010, 09:25 AM	#55
beppe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,161 Karma: 81026524 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Italy Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2	A promo sections would be interesting for the targets of the promo, and maybe it would make the promoter more clear in his actions. One innocent bystander goes there and see what new music is playing. He might get in, get a seat and buy a drink. It would not reduce the amount of promotions in other forums, by individual posting or by signatures. If the power to be go this way good for them, if not, tough. I imagine, not being one myself, that an author craves for acknowledgment and success. That is views and sales. That is the way. There is style also, but at the end only numbers count, and approval or disapproval by a cultured or by a beastly reader just counts the same. Ah Ah. This is a very old question that goes back to about 400 b.c. see link. Our writers corner has a different scope. It will be interesting to see if it will remain so. Personally, I am quite sure of that because the mods are really very good. And that's the truth. I think giving space to authors and promoters to make their work (trade, merchandise, business, who cares how they call it, it is the same stuff whichever way) known is well within the scope of this site. Advertising is an other story. But to none of us, logging in this site was a doctor prescription. And if it gets too much loaded, than one stays if he likes it and goes if he does not. So everything keeps together. I am sure the views are monitored. I would monitor them. So, this is my opinion. If the administratores want to make a new section, with romantic vampires and similar paraphernalia, nobody looses. And self promotion with every conceivable means will continue. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And if they exagerate, they will have to take s.... But they do not care. Imagine how much they have to swallow on their road to success. But we like to give it. At least that. So everybody is sort of happy.

06-05-2010, 12:56 PM	#56
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	As far as posting in the deals section goes, I suggested a while back that we might want a split into subsections: device deals book deals bookstore deals Device deals would be for sales on ebook reading devices, like when Woot had refurb 600s for sale. That one's pretty obvious. Book deals would be for discounts/freebies on individual books, which is where "My book is half price on Smashwords this weekend" would go. Those wouldn't necessarily have to be posted by the authors; any deals that someone spots that are specific to a specific book or books would go there. Bookstore deals would be for more general sales and discounts from the bookstore end, like "all romances half price for Valentine's Day on BVC". An easy rule of thumb would be that if the post includes the titles of specific books or the names of specific authors it would go in "book deals" while if it only mentions the store, genre, whatever, it would be in "store deals". The big advantage to this, aside from satisfying my obsession to classify things, is in time on the front page. The "deals" section is so busy that any given post gets pushed off the front page rather quickly (this also tends to encourage bumping). If someone's trying to find a deal on a new ebook reader, it's buried under book discount notices. If someone would jump on a discount on Steve's books, they might never see it because it got flooded out by ... um, how many people posted about those 600s on Woot? ... device and bookstore sales. And if someone is looking for cheap books by authors who don't hang out on MobileRead, they'll have to dig for the bookstore sales among the other two categories. For instance, I don't care in the slightest about device deals. I have my 505, it does what I want, and I'll be happy with it until it wears out (that's just the way I am; I drive a car that's old enough to vote, too). On the other hand, there are some ebook stores I buy from whose deals would interest me, and I'm even more interested in deals (especially of the free sample variety) by indie authors. Sorting the three types of deals out would make it a lot easier to find the ones I want. And, just by having the extra sections, it would keep new posts of each category on the front page of that section longer, which would be good for everyone. That way, the Book Fair would be for announcements of new ebooks (whether or not they had a special deal attached), and Deals/Books would be for special deals on ebooks (whether or not they're new). And, yes, the same book could be posted to both of them if it was both new and discounted. It might also make sense, if the MR forum software is capable of it, to set the deals sections to auto-purge posts after a set period of time since nobody really cares about deals that expired a month ago.

06-05-2010, 01:05 PM	#57
Moejoe Banned Posts: 5,100 Karma: 72193 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South of the Border Device: Coffin	How about a gentle reminder that this isn't the home shopping network on sign up? This is a community, not a place to maximise market potentials and gain customers. And then you've got to contribute at least, lets say 20 posts before you can even post anything related to a product. And even then you'll be whipped soundly with a horsehair brush if you go all marketing speak - Incredible savings! Once in a lifetime offer! etc.

06-05-2010, 01:10 PM	#58
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	It's easy to contribute 20 nonsense posts if you have to. And if a writer wants to join, and talk about the book he is writing for example, ask questions about the cover or chapter 42, that's fine by me. Once in a lifetime offers! and anything else with exclamation marks is not fine by me, even by regular members. That's advertising. Announcing your book is absolutely fine though. (And by the way, what happened to yours? )

06-05-2010, 01:33 PM	#60
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	Well, exclamation marks from you are actually welcome, now that I see them in person And I'd like a white hat please. Do I get to choose a shade of white at least? Thing is, we ARE interested in books. And I really don't feel that I have to ignore some indie writers just because they are not part of this community. But I do ignore spammers. So, announcements are fine for me. Even by not very active members. And if they are in the appropriate subforum. No harm done. Oh, and I like Worldwalker's proposed changes for the Deals section too.

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