Could Sigil create both EPUB and KF8?

[Perkin]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

(I know that Kindle style TOCs are not required for ePubs, but why force Kindle content creators to use external tools just to manually insert a TOC?)

Because Sigil isn't a Kindle creator/generator/convertor/product, it's epub.

Why not e-mail kidlegen makers and ask them to auto add TOC into their build pipeline.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

There really wouldn't be much point in having Sigil give you an option to build the KF8 with kindlegen (by configuring kindlegen's location in Sigil).

I beg to differ.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Building the MOBI/KF8 file is already as simple as dragging the ePub onto the Kindlepreviewer app from a file browser. The latest kindlegen is built into the KindlePreviewer app.

I'm aware of that option, but why force users to open another full blown GUI application, when this functionality could be easily added by a programmer in a couple of minutes?

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Sigil is an ePub editor. I think it's best if they focus on that and not muddy the waters with features for other formats.

Based on your post history you didn't strike me as a stickler for protocol who insists on doing everything by the book. Isn't adding useful features always something that adds value to a program? IMHO, simply insisting on blindly following the "pure doctrine" doesn't make much sense.

Originally Posted by Perkin

Why not e-mail kidlegen makers and ask them to auto add TOC into their build pipeline.

I agree that Amazon should add an automatically generated inline TOC to their Kindlegen ePub conversion code. However, given Amazon's track record when it comes to responding to customer requests, this is not very likely to happen anytime soon.
However, the current Sigil maintainer user_none is not bound by these limitations and could easily implement this feature.

[Toxaris]

Sigil is an ePUB editor and not Kindle, as pointed out several times. It tries to give as pure ePUB as possible and not device specific.

I agree that configuring the link in itself would not be a big change, but it would divert the program. Generating for Kindle is not that difficult as I read for DiapDealer. However, you are overlooking something.
As soon as a generated mobi would not work, the fault will be sought within Sigil, even when it is the generator that is faulty. It will be more difficult to bug-hunt and Sigil will get a reputation that it is not good in its work even if it is.

I always like one of the Unix doctrines. Make a program do only one thing, but do that good.

Amazon should deliver good working code, that's their job in this case. You are asking to solve an issue with a program via another program which is not meant for that.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I totally agree with user_none in this case.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

Based on your post history you didn't strike me as a stickler for protocol who insists on doing everything by the book.

Sorry if I disappointed you in some way. But all I can do is express my honest opinion—which could very well agree with yours on some future topic... just not this particular one. *shrugs*

[brontus]

While I agree with the argument that it's better for Sigil to concentrate on doing one thing well than many things poorly, it would be nice to have one program that just works. My current workflow includes 6 different programs to go from a .doc manuscript to validated mobi and epub files.

Of course, Sigil is open source, if somebody wanted to make a fork and add in the functionality, there is nothing stopping them from doing it. If my C++ skills were worth a damn, I'd try it.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by brontus

While I agree with the argument that it's better for Sigil to concentrate on doing one thing well than many things poorly, it would be nice to have one program that just works. My current workflow includes 6 different programs to go from a .doc manuscript to validated mobi and epub files.

If you already use 6 programs, one more or less doesn't matter. Or do you suggest that Sigil should also include OCR and be a full blown Wordprocessor?

[brontus]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

If you already use 6 programs, one more or less doesn't matter. Or do you suggest that Sigil should also include OCR and be a full blown Wordprocessor?

Well Sigil as a plugin to OpenOffice would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath. I know it would be difficult to implement, make the program run slower, and probably harder to debug.

If streamlining my workflow by having one program that makes both files saved me half an hour, then by the time I had done 50, I would have saved an entire day that I was free to do something else.

[bfollowell]

Originally Posted by mncowboy

JSWolf - That's what I have been doing, Sigil to Calibre to get the mobi file. I've been working with the new Kindle Previewer, and that seems to work faster than Calibre to get the books converted from EPUB to mobi.

I've never had a lot of luck using Kindle Previewer to convert my epubs to mobi. Using the newer version to convert from epub to KF8 seems to work great but it still doesn't achieve the results I want when converting to mobi. The main issue I have is it throwing off all the margins. For example, if a chapter title is supposed to be down about 10-20% from the top of the screen in the epub, after converting to mobi using the Kindle Previewer, the chapter title will be three or four lines or about 1-2" from the bottom of the screen. It really throws off the whole look of the book and is a big turn-off for me.

Using Calibre to convert my epubs to mobi is the only way to go for me. That's just me, of course.

- Byron

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by bfollowell

I've never had a lot of luck using Kindle Previewer to convert my epubs to mobi. Using the newer version to convert from epub to KF8 seems to work great but it still doesn't achieve the results I want when converting to mobi. The main issue I have is it throwing off all the margins. For example, if a chapter title is supposed to be down about 10-20% from the top of the screen in the epub, after converting to mobi using the Kindle Previewer, the chapter title will be three or four lines or about 1-2" from the bottom of the screen. It really throws off the whole look of the book and is a big turn-off for me.

Using Calibre to convert my epubs to mobi is the only way to go for me. That's just me, of course.

- Byron

The new Previewer/kindlegen has several different ways that you can provide different css for building the KF8 than is used to create the mobi portion.

Towards the bottom of the new Kindle Publishing Guidelines is the instructions (there's about four different methods) to implement this.

Now I can use one epub source and with a quick change to the CSS, build a KF8 with an optimized fall-back mobi. Life just got a lot simpler for me.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...
Sigil is an ePub editor. I think it's best if they focus on that and not muddy the waters with features for other formats.

I agree, with one qualification.

I feel Sigil should make sure that the ePubs it creates work well with Kindlegen and this it does nothing to inhibit the creation of ePubs optimized for conversion in Kindlegen.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by dwig

I agree, with one qualification.

I feel Sigil should make sure that the ePubs it creates work well with Kindlegen and this it does nothing to inhibit the creation of ePubs optimized for conversion in Kindlegen.

If you create a well made ePub using Sigil and the ePub doesn't work well with Kindlegen, then it's the fault of Kindlegen, not Sigil. Sigil is for ePub.

Complain to Amazon that Kindlegen is buggy. There's no good reason to take a perfectly good ePub and mess it up just so some buggy software can deal with it. Blame the buggy software (Kindlegen), not Sigil.

[Toxaris]

I agree with JSWolf, Sigil should produce good quality ePUB's. If Kindlegen can't work with it, it is up to Amazon to fix Kindlegen. It is the world upside down if Sigil should produce a worst quality ePUB just so Kindlegen could work with it.

[user_none]

Originally Posted by dwig

I feel Sigil should make sure that the ePubs it creates work well with Kindlegen and this it does nothing to inhibit the creation of ePubs optimized for conversion in Kindlegen.

Sigil should allow you to create standards compliant ePub files. If Kindlegen can't handle conforming ePubs then that's not Sigil's problem. If your goal is to create Amazon (mobi, kf8, tpz...) then you shouldn't be using Sigil and you should be complaining to Amazon for not providing something like Sigil for their formats. Sigil is a dedicated tool for a dedicated purpose, making ePubs.

Again, why should I care about a proprietary format that is subject to change at any moment. A format produced by a company for use on their proprietary hardware or in their proprietary reading software and no where else. Especially when the company won't provide any information about how to properly create or even read this format.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by user_none

If your goal is to create Amazon (mobi, kf8, tpz...) then you shouldn't be using Sigil and you should be complaining to Amazon for not providing something like Sigil for their formats. Sigil is a dedicated tool for a dedicated purpose, making ePubs.

I agree 100% that Sigil should remain strictly focused on compliant ePubs and shouldn't even consider the needs of kindlegen. I also agree that any complaints about the difficulties/quirks/deficiencies of the mobi/kf8 building process should be directed toward Amazon... not towards the maintainers of programs whose final product happens to be accepted as source material for Amazon's program.

However... to suggest that people shouldn't even be using Sigil in their mobi creation process may be a tad over the top. I use Sigil all the time to create quality ePubs AND mobis (in fact, it just got easier to do so). I'm just not going to complain to Sigil maintainers when Amazon changes the requirements of kindlegen. I'm just going to adjust my process accordingly.

[theducks]

+1